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Old 05-06-2021, 12:46 PM   #31
Tyneras
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Kentucky, USA
Default Re: GURPS Overhaul: Combat Skills, Take 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by DouglasCole View Post
I'd submit that makes it a technique more akin to Arm Lock, where it only goes up. So you basically take your Garotte technique and add it to best of DX or a grappling skill.
I hadn't really considered a technique that could go off a skill or straight DX. That's a great combination with a Grapple (DX/E) skill.

This shrinks my melee weapon skill list down to 7:
Melee Weapon (1 Handed)
Melee Weapon (2 Handed Balanced)
Melee Weapon (2 Handed Unbalanced)
Melee Weapon (Reach Weapons)
Whip
Net
Shield

plus a Garrote technique.
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Old 05-06-2021, 01:30 PM   #32
Tyneras
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Kentucky, USA
Default Re: GURPS Overhaul: Combat Skills, Take 3

Switching gears to ranged weapons, this thread has given me food for thought. I've split these up based on how the human body moves to use the item. This reduced it to 4 skills, 2 with required specialties.

Thrown (Spear) and similar, plus the spear thrower
Thrown (Sling) includes bolas
Thrown (Small) catch all for knives, ninja stars, darts, rocks, etc.

Blow Pipe
Bow

Guns (Long Arm) This would include 2 handed crossbows and liquid projectors.
Guns (Pistol) 1 handed crossbows too.
Guns (LAW)

I think Beam Weapons would fall mostly under Long Arm or Pistol based on using one or two hands. The comment about energy projectors being energy shotguns or flamethrowers makes me think they'd mostly be long arms, with maybe tiny ones being pistols.
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Old 05-06-2021, 04:03 PM   #33
naloth
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Default Re: GURPS Overhaul: Combat Skills, Take 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyneras View Post
Switching gears to ranged weapons, this thread has given me food for thought. I've split these up based on how the human body moves to use the item. This reduced it to 4 skills, 2 with required specialties.

Thrown (Spear) and similar, plus the spear thrower
Thrown (Sling) includes bolas
Thrown (Small) catch all for knives, ninja stars, darts, rocks, etc.
I'd pretty much just use Throwing (DX/A) and allow specialization by type (which IIRC, converts it to DX/E).

Quote:
Blow Pipe
Bow
Seems reasonable.

Quote:
Guns (Long Arm) This would include 2 handed crossbows and liquid projectors.
Guns (Pistol) 1 handed crossbows too.
Guns (LAW)
I'd make them:
Guns (pistol caliber SMG, pistols, handbow, flare gun)
Guns (long arm)
Guns (heavy: bipods, tripods, vehicle mounted firearms, unguided rockets)
Guns (unguided artillery such as cannons, mortars, catapults, scorpio)
... with fairly generous defaults/techniques between other Gun specialties.

For a total of 7.
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Old 05-07-2021, 07:45 AM   #34
Varyon
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default Re: GURPS Overhaul: Combat Skills, Take 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by naloth View Post
I'd pretty much just use Throwing (DX/A) and allow specialization by type (which IIRC, converts it to DX/E).
Being as I was making the list while I was posting, I think I went overboard with the number of Thrown Weapon skills. I think your solution of Throwing at DX/A, with Optional Specializations matching the various DX/E skills I listed, works better. Atlatl would be an "Exotic Weapon," at -2 to hit unless you've bought the relevant Proficiency/Training (can't recall which it's called) Perk. I'm tempted to give axes a similar treatment, but I'll hold off on that for now. I feel Sling would be a completely separate skill rather than a penalized Exotic Weapon, but with a decent default with Throwing, but I don't have any experience to go off of (granted, I don't have any experience with an atlatl either, but it seems straightforward enough).

Quote:
Originally Posted by naloth View Post
I'd make them:
Guns (pistol caliber SMG, pistols, handbow, flare gun)
Guns (long arm)
Guns (heavy: bipods, tripods, vehicle mounted firearms, unguided rockets)
Guns (unguided artillery such as cannons, mortars, catapults, scorpio)
... with fairly generous defaults/techniques between other Gun specialties.
I'm largely comfortable with the divisions from Alternate Guns Specialties, but I'll admit I like your treatment of Gunner here as well - it looks like you've integrated Gunner into the Guns skill, with only two required specialties of it, and merged Guns (Law) into one of those. I also like Tyneras' idea of merging Crossbow into Guns (Longarm) and (Pistol), depending.

So, roughly, something like:

Thrown Weapon (DX/A): Optional Specialties are Ball, Net, Disk, Dart, Spear, Knife, Sword, and Axe. Atlatl's are at -2, negated by a Perk. Defaults to Sling-3.
Sling (DX/H): Defaults to Thrown Weapon-3.
Blowgun (DX/A)
Bow (DX/A)
Guns (DX/H): Optional Specialties are Pistol, Longarm, Heavy, and Artillery. Defaults to Beams-3.
Beams (DX/H): Optional Specialties are Pistol, Longarm, Heavy, and Artillery. Defaults to Guns-3. Note in some settings, Beam Weapons simply use Guns instead, and this skill doesn't exist.

Probably go with the same -5 default as for melee weapons. I'm tempted not to have any adjustment to this for different difficulties (indeed, I'm considering abandoning that for melee weapons as well).
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Old 05-07-2021, 08:17 AM   #35
Tyneras
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Kentucky, USA
Default Re: GURPS Overhaul: Combat Skills, Take 3

While I'm fine with Gunner being integrated into Guns at a heavier default penalty, Artillery is fundamentally different in both behavior and use and should be a separate skill.
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Old 05-07-2021, 08:26 AM   #36
Varyon
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default Re: GURPS Overhaul: Combat Skills, Take 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyneras View Post
While I'm fine with Gunner being integrated into Guns at a heavier default penalty, Artillery is fundamentally different in both behavior and use and should be a separate skill.
It's meant to be for artillery weapons used for direct fire, like cannon and scorpions and the like. Basically, heavy weapons that you don't directly control, used for direct fire. The best term I could think of for that was Guns (Artillery). I could certainly see that as potentially being a part of a different skill set (like Artillery itself), however. Basically, this is the skill you'd use to aim and fire a typical cannon, while Guns (Heavy) is what you'd use to aim and fire a swivel-gun.
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Last edited by Varyon; 05-07-2021 at 08:30 AM.
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Old 05-07-2021, 09:05 AM   #37
Tyneras
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Kentucky, USA
Default Re: GURPS Overhaul: Combat Skills, Take 3

Ah, I misunderstood. I think cannon would be a better name to prevent confusion.
Thinking on it, I think this is how I'd separate them, based on how perceive minimal overlap between use (and thus skill).

Guns (LAW) Any weapon held and used at head height, generally resting on the shoulder. Not a huge category but distinct from the others.
Guns (Longarm) Held and used in both hands at body to shoulder height.
Guns (Pistol) Held and used in one hand.
Guns (Gunner) Guns that MUST be mounted to be properly used. If you are strong enough to pick it up and fire it effectively (See Arnold's acting career) you are using Longarm. Most bipod weapons are not included, those provide an aim bonus but don't qualify as Gunner.
Guns (Cannon) Direct fire artillery mounted or on wheels. If you can pick it up and use it, it's Longarm. Boundary between Gunner and Cannon is fuzzy, but single shot vs sustained fire is a good metric.

Artillery. Indirect fire weapons. This is an IQ skill.

A lot of Super Bricks would get more mileage out of Longarm than Cannon or Gunner, since they tend to rip such weapons off their mounts and use them like awkward rifles.
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