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Old 10-09-2024, 04:00 PM   #1
Hopkins Vioreo
 
Join Date: Sep 2024
Default High Power GURPS: Where lies the problem?

Whenever I search for GURPS limitations, one key aspect keeps popping up: GURPS doesn't do High Power campaigns very well. I would like to know, from those who already attempted it:
1- Is it true?
2- If so, what exactly "breaks" within the system?
3- Are there any tips to ameliorate the problem?
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Old 10-09-2024, 04:15 PM   #2
whswhs
 
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Location: Lawrence, KS
Default Re: High Power GURPS: Where lies the problem?

After the publication of GURPS Supers, I ran a campaign, Sovereignty, based on one of my proposals in it. We had five player characters built on 1600 base points each (one player dropped out after he was unable to come up with more than 900 points of traits!). I was mostly satisfied with it; I discovered a couple of things I needed to handle differently, but the campaign lasted for two years and came to a satisfactory conclusion.
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Old 10-09-2024, 04:17 PM   #3
Kesendeja
 
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Default Re: High Power GURPS: Where lies the problem?

The only problem I've ever had is skills. At a certain point characters can even do everything reasonably well, or what they are specialized in almost perfectly.

Personally the wide array of skills is less annoying. But I've learned to work with the problem and have no problem with high power games.
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Old 10-09-2024, 04:17 PM   #4
zoncxs
 
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Default Re: High Power GURPS: Where lies the problem?

1 - Not true.
2 - The thing that breaks the system are the players.
3 - Don't focus on point cost but on powers. Have your players tell you what they want to do and YOU work with them to build it, making it balanced with the other players.

I had a supers game where each player cost completely different. One was barely 300 pts and another was almost 1000. This was because of what they wanted, and I was the one that made the powers for them to make sure no one tried to munchkin and I knew how it worked.
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Old 10-09-2024, 04:22 PM   #5
Refplace
 
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Location: Yukon, OK
Default Re: High Power GURPS: Where lies the problem?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopkins Vioreo View Post
Whenever I search for GURPS limitations, one key aspect keeps popping up: GURPS doesn't do High Power campaigns very well. I would like to know, from those who already attempted it:
1- Is it true?
2- If so, what exactly "breaks" within the system?
3- Are there any tips to ameliorate the problem?
Played and ran several high powered campaigns, from Supers to epic fantasy and SciFi.
High point totals can allow very odd and possibly implausible builds (depending on the setting). For example powerful superpowers also allow for extremely high skill characters which may not fit a particular setting.
Even more likely with cyberwear or magic as powers systems, the points to enable those features can encourage high skill characters who have skills in excess of plausibility.
A good answer to this is "Buckets of Points" simple limit how many points can be spent on certain things, possibly based on archetype or role.

High point totals involve more math. Spreadsheets or software such as GCA or GCS can help here.

Some people think it does not do Supers well, in particular Bricks. I disagree though. There are almost no Marvel or DC characters you cannot build in GURPS for example. Some of the more powerful ones simply cost many thousands of points but I am fine with beings like the Silver Surfer, Thor, Quasar, Superman, etc costing an outragous amount.
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Old 10-09-2024, 04:50 PM   #6
whswhs
 
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Default Re: High Power GURPS: Where lies the problem?

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Originally Posted by Refplace View Post
Some people think it does not do Supers well, in particular Bricks. I disagree though. There are almost no Marvel or DC characters you cannot build in GURPS for example. Some of the more powerful ones simply cost many thousands of points but I am fine with beings like the Silver Surfer, Thor, Quasar, Superman, etc costing an outragous amount.
The physically strongest character in Sovereignty was Nemesis, who had base ST 20 and Strength +10/+100 (Divine, -10%; Super-Effort, +300), which together used up roughly a third of her point budget. That allowed her Basic Lift of 180 lbs. on a sustained basis and 2880 lbs. with extraordinary effort. Her Thrust damage was 13d with extraordinary effort, but she also had Power Blow against worthy foes, which let her build up to 39d.

I suspect that with half against as many points she could have been comparable to the powerhouses you mention. At least for the Byrne version of Superman; the Silver Age dude was over the top.
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Old 10-09-2024, 04:55 PM   #7
Anthony
 
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Default Re: High Power GURPS: Where lies the problem?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopkins Vioreo View Post
1- Is it true?
2- If so, what exactly "breaks" within the system?
3- Are there any tips to ameliorate the problem?
Usually, "doesn't do high power well" actually means, "doesn't do the particular high power genre I want to do well without a lot of effort that I'm unwilling to put into it".

Most of the problems with GURPS at high power levels are with high and ultra tech (where replicating gear with powers can cost hundreds of points), with extreme power levels (point scaling will get wonky if you try to do, say, GURPS Godzilla, without extensive house rules), and with genre conventions where the nominally mundane martial artist can punch the guy in super-advanced power armor and do something relevant.
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Old 10-09-2024, 04:57 PM   #8
Refplace
 
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Default Re: High Power GURPS: Where lies the problem?

Quote:
Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
The physically strongest character in Sovereignty was Nemesis, who had base ST 20 and Strength +10/+100 (Divine, -10%; Super-Effort, +300), which together used up roughly a third of her point budget. That allowed her Basic Lift of 180 lbs. on a sustained basis and 2880 lbs. with extraordinary effort. Her Thrust damage was 13d with extraordinary effort, but she also had Power Blow against worthy foes, which let her build up to 39d.

I suspect that with half against as many points she could have been comparable to the powerhouses you mention. At least for the Byrne version of Superman; the Silver Age dude was over the top.
And using Know Your Own Strength you can get the over the top lifting ST with a more reasonable damage output.
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My GURPS fan contribution and blog:
REFPLace GURPS Landing Page
My List of GURPS You Tube videos (plus a few other useful items)
My GURPS Wiki entries
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Old 10-09-2024, 08:03 PM   #9
Polydamas
 
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Default Re: High Power GURPS: Where lies the problem?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopkins Vioreo View Post
Whenever I search for GURPS limitations, one key aspect keeps popping up: GURPS doesn't do High Power campaigns very well. I would like to know, from those who already attempted it:
1- Is it true?
2- If so, what exactly "breaks" within the system?
3- Are there any tips to ameliorate the problem?
To steelman this trope, GURPS is built to create scenes which resemble realist fiction. So the farther the world diverges from that (whether Lord of the Rings or Four-Colour Supers) the less well it works. Old GURPS tends to describe differences from a 20-something human one difference at a time, so characters who are very different from that can be cumbersome.

There are some technical issues with how ST and muscle-powered damage scale in terms of point cost.
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Old 10-09-2024, 10:31 PM   #10
rkbrown419
 
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Default Re: High Power GURPS: Where lies the problem?

I've heard this complaint since third edition. It often started with "GURPS can't handle X well." When I'd point out that there was a rules option to handle that specific issue, but the response was usually, "We don't like that rule." I would then point out the ridiculousness of saying "GURRPS can't do X," when you're ignoring the rule that would solve your problem. I suspect that much of the bad reputation is a hold over from those issues. Mind you 4th edition has either avoided most issues that were complained about in third or provided much more elegant solutions. Unfortunately the reputation persist. Mind you I'd not recommend an inexperienced GM try it. You want to be very familiar with Powers, Supers and most of the Power Ups series. As Supers says, forget point totals, build to concept and balance spotlight time.
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