Tactical Shooting - the future

[jacobmuller]

I was wondering if there is a measurable difference, in GURPS terms, between Point Shooting and Weaver Stance? Or in longarm terms, firing from the hip and shouldering it.

Why? We've got HUD for aircraft and it won't be long before the infantry have it, cf FPS games that put an icon on screen to show where you're pointing the "weapon".

[HANS]

Originally Posted by jacobmuller

I was wondering if there is a measurable difference, in GURPS terms, between Point Shooting and Weaver Stance? Or in longarm terms, firing from the hip and shouldering it.

Yes. This is discussed at considerable length in TACTICAL SHOOTING.

Cheers

HANS

[lexington]

Originally Posted by jacobmuller

I was wondering if there is a measurable difference, in GURPS terms, between Point Shooting and Weaver Stance? Or in longarm terms, firing from the hip and shouldering it.

Why? We've got HUD for aircraft and it won't be long before the infantry have it, cf FPS games that put an icon on screen to show where you're pointing the "weapon".

Point shooting only uses one hand, yes? That would mean it isn't braced, while the Weaver stance is.

[jacobmuller]

oops, left a bit out: Speed.
Point is faster than Weaver. If you're dead you'll not benefit from your braced weapon. Is there anything covering the speed difference and lack of use of sights? With Weaver you're using the sights but not aiming, perhaps covered by +1 for Braced. With Point you're shooting intuitively (and before the Weaver has taken his stance). Considering that speedsters can draw, assume stance, and put three rounds on target in under 2 seconds, if said speedster didn't take time to assume stance to look over his sights, eg using HUD, how much faster would he be...

Is Weaver best covered by using a Ready Action and accepting that GURPS turns really aren't 1 second. So Point becomes draw and fire, Weaver becomes draw, ready, fire
(but you can take AoA and Fast-Draw, argh!)

I guess I'm Really lookin forward to TacShg (and Lo-Tec and Veh)

[Maz]

Originally Posted by jacobmuller

Is Weaver best covered by using a Ready Action and accepting that GURPS turns really aren't 1 second. So Point becomes draw and fire, Weaver becomes draw, ready, fire

This sounds reasonable and logical to me. It gives a distinct difference while keeping within the normal rules of GURPS.

I think Kromm (maybe another) once said that all normal Attacks in GURPS are "aimed" to some degree. Taking the Aim-action means deliberate taking time to aim and so costs the 1 sec. The only time you are not aiming at all is when making a "wild shot", such as by a Move and Attack and therefore you gain a penalty there.

---

For hip shooting I don't know. I have no experience. Movies make it looks only slightly less effective than normal shots but my intuition tells me it should be much more difficult to shoot accurately that way.

For the classic full-auto charging hip-shooting of any 80's action-hero I think it's just a visual effect of Move and Attack.
For the duel-at-dawn of the Wild West I think there could be made some houserules for it... isn't there some in High Tech? I seem to recall a lot of Wild West Techniques in that.

[jacobmuller]

Point v's Weaver.
Yeah, I have to refer to the experts.
Apparently Cooper came up with his system, including using Weaver, at his gun club. They shot at balloons at 7 yds and hip shooting, whilst faster, just wasn't doing it. Weaver is actually Aiming - you look over the front sight at your target. Sequence must be Point = Draw and Shoot; Weaver = Draw, Aim, Shoot and get +1 for braced.
HUD appears to be just a bonus to Acc, meaning you still got to aim.

I hate it when I feel like I've used the forum to think out loud.

[Maz]

Originally Posted by jacobmuller

I hate it when I feel like I've used the forum to think out loud.

Hahaha, I do that too sometimes. Don't feel bad at all. Sometimes others can benefit from such thoughts. If they are completly uninteresting noone will respond.

[SuedodeuS]

A simple HUD crosshair used reflexively is going to be, at best, equivalent to a laser sight. UT has it down with it only giving a bonus to Aimed shots - but note that you can install a Targeting Tactical Program (UT149-150) that will give a bonus to even unaimed shots.

[jacobmuller]

Ooh, rules-maths conundrum therein:
HUD says +1 Acc not cumulative with other targeting systems.
ETS says +3 to aimed shots.
Targeting software is +2 to Skill.
Does that make +2 for unaimed shots, ie skill, and +6 for aimed, ie +3 to aimed shots is not +3 to Acc? (deja vu)

[David Johansen]

Given the effectiveness of modern body armour I keep expecting a return to larger caliber battle rifles. Pistols may get to be a bit of an after thought.