Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-19-2020, 10:03 PM   #21
onetrikpony
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Default Re: What happens if; Points for gear

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daigoro View Post
Isn't there a suggestion that vehicles and mechs built on points should have DX and IQ of N/A?
? I don't know. I assume that's the case with the UT battle suits.

I've been having a lot of fun using the old vehicles, mecha, and robots books to build mecha, borg bodies and such. In that case IQ is the complexity dependent IQ of the unit's computer. In Mecha the battle suit or mech has no DX, the pilot's DX rolls and DX based skills are capped by battle suit skill. In Robots the mech or Borg body does have an independent DX (capped at 13 by gear limitations) and Operational DX is the average of the body's DX and that of the pilot or 'Borg's brain.

I kind of enjoy the effects of the averaging method.
onetrikpony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2020, 08:47 AM   #22
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: What happens if; Points for gear

Quote:
Originally Posted by onetrikpony View Post
? I don't know. I assume that's the case with the UT battle suits.
UT battlesuits are not given character write-ups or point values. Neither are its' vehicles.

If they were the costs for armor would almost certainly swamp everything else. I've never seen anybody buy DR as a Gadget.
__________________
Fred Brackin
Fred Brackin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2020, 09:05 AM   #23
Lord_of_Noob
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Default Re: What happens if; Points for gear

I do not like the Ally approach. Call me nitpicking, but the Ally is another being.

I would go for the Shapeshiftin ( Alternate Form ) advantage with the Limitations of Preparation time, unique and Breakable (Assuming DR 25), can be stolen by stealth or trickery and pact.
And 15 CP + 90% on the difference at a 1500CP worth Mecha would cost:
(15+(1500-250)*0.9)*(1 - (0.3+0.25+0.05+ 0.2+0.1)) = 228 CP

And if you add some more limitations it will drop further, but it will not become cheaper then 15 CP.

IMHO you do not need 1500CP for a cool Mecha, but I worked with your numbers. I hope I have not overlooked something.
Lord_of_Noob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2020, 11:02 AM   #24
ericthered
Hero of Democracy
 
ericthered's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: far from the ocean
Default Re: What happens if; Points for gear

Quote:
Originally Posted by onetrikpony View Post
At first I was thinking; "That's a good point. What about the 'Thor' characters in Magic-and-Mecha? What about the the alien supers I'd like to have in my setting."

Then I realized.

IronMan and Thor DON'T buy things in the same way, not in marvel, not in GURPS. Tony stark pays cash, Thor pays CP.
...
I'm becoming convinced that the answer is NOPE.

Not as bad as it would screw a soldier or merc in a TL10 game by making them pay 505 points for setting-standard gear.
ehh, they ought to pay roughly the same amount for roughly the same abilities. That's one of the core design philosophies behind gurps. But my solution usually is to make certain advantages (like DR and ST) priced like gear, not the other way around.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_of_Noob View Post
I do not like the Ally approach. Call me nitpicking, but the Ally is another being.
I wouldn't allow a vehicle or suit ally to be purchased with points. That usually indicates a point crock. I'm advocating for using the "Captain's Boat" from pyramid 76. That uses ally as the base advantage to price and build an advantage for buying "ally vehicles", especially ones that don't scale well with signature gear.
__________________
Be helpful, not pedantic

Worlds Beyond Earth -- my blog

Check out the PbP forum! If you don't see a game you'd like, ask me about making one!
ericthered is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2020, 11:18 AM   #25
awesomenessofme1
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Default Re: What happens if; Points for gear

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
I wouldn't allow a vehicle or suit ally to be purchased with points. That usually indicates a point crock. I'm advocating for using the "Captain's Boat" from pyramid 76. That uses ally as the base advantage to price and build an advantage for buying "ally vehicles", especially ones that don't scale well with signature gear.
I checked Pyramid 76 and didn't see anything about that. Maybe you were thinking of a different issue? Supers also has rules for "SG+Ally" to represent custom vehicles.
awesomenessofme1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2020, 11:46 AM   #26
zoncxs
 
zoncxs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: earth....I think.
Default Re: What happens if; Points for gear

Quote:
Originally Posted by awesomenessofme1 View Post
I checked Pyramid 76 and didn't see anything about that. Maybe you were thinking of a different issue? Supers also has rules for "SG+Ally" to represent custom vehicles.
Found it, Pyramid 3/71.

On a side note. People need to remember that, though you can get an ally whose point total is well above your PC point total and posses them. It is the GM that makes the Ally, not the player.

The GM needs to the job of making sure everything stays balanced. I have done this for my players before, it was a Supers game and I had two characters that were similar. One was "ironman", had a few advantages built as gadgets and over 20 million in game currency while the other was a "guyver" type character, they had a symbiote suit that also granted them a few powers.
zoncxs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2020, 03:43 PM   #27
onetrikpony
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Default Re: What happens if; Points for gear

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
UT battlesuits are not given character write-ups or point values. Neither are its' vehicles.

If they were the costs for armor would almost certainly swamp everything else. I've never seen anybody buy DR as a Gadget.
I'm not sure I see your point. You're opposed to using battle suits as easily accessed benchmarks for Mecha? You don't like ideas if you haven't seen someone else do them first?

It's not difficult to figure 'a' point cost for a piece of gear, and shouldn't be avoided just because 'The' point cost isn't listed in a book.
the stats below took me about 20 minutes.
It was interesting to find out that DR is only about 3/5 of the point value.
Also interesting to find that the (unrealistic) operating temperature range of "Absolute zero to 500*F" as temperature tolerance would cost 93 points.



TL10 Commando Suit
+15 striking and lifting strength 120
IQ 0 -200
HT? (assume HT 10) 0
HP? (assume HP 15) 0
b263 Machine Metatrait 25
b263 Automaton -85

b89 Super Jump 2 20

b47 DR 75 all locations (sealed, Cant Wear armor -40%) 225
b47 DR 30 (torso only -10%, Can't wear armor -40%) 75
b47 DR 30 (Skull only -70%) 45
b80 Reduced Consumption (powercells 24 hrs) 4

b72 Obscure (infrared cloaking -6 to infravision or thermal sensors, Defensive only +50%, Stealthy +100%, Self Only -10%)
b72 Obscure (Radar Stealth,-6 to radar scanning sense, Defensive +50%, Stealthy +100%, Only Self -10% ) 17
b51 Enhanced Defense; Dodge +2 (Tactical ESM; only vs. active targeting -40$) 18
b48 Detect: Occasional (Radar) [10]; (Tactical ESM detector; Precise +100%, Signal Detection +0%) 20
b55 Filter mask (as filter lungs ) 5
b34 Absolute Direction (Inertial compass) 5
b78 Protected Sense (Hearing protection) 5
b91 Telecommunication (Small radio) 10
b91 Telecommunication (Small Laser Comm) 15
b60 Hyperspectral Vision (Hyperspectral Visor) 25
b92 Telescopic Vision I (Hyperspectral Visor) 5
b82 Sealed 15
b93 Temperature Tolerance (Temperature Control -950 to +500F) 93
b77 Pressure Support (Sealed 20 atmospheres) 15
b79 Radiation Tolerance (Sealed Radiation PF10) 15
b96 Vacuum Support 5
b49 Doesn't Breathe (Air Tank 36 hours) 20
b100 Accessory (waste relief system) 1
b100 Accessory (Biomedical Sensors) 1

b146 No Sense of Smell (Mitigator; Helmet sensors -70%) -1
b129 Deaf (Mitigator; Helmet Sensors -70%) -3
b151 Restricted Diet (Power-Cells) -10

Not saying I'd build a mech exactly this way but it makes a good bench mark for the lower range of the scale.
onetrikpony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2020, 04:02 PM   #28
onetrikpony
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Default Re: What happens if; Points for gear

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_of_Noob View Post
I do not like the Ally approach. Call me nitpicking, but the Ally is another being.

I would go for the Shapeshiftin ( Alternate Form ) advantage with the Limitations of Preparation time, unique and Breakable (Assuming DR 25), can be stolen by stealth or trickery and pact.
And 15 CP + 90% on the difference at a 1500CP worth Mecha would cost:
(15+(1500-250)*0.9)*(1 - (0.3+0.25+0.05+ 0.2+0.1)) = 228 CP

And if you add some more limitations it will drop further, but it will not become cheaper then 15 CP.

IMHO you do not need 1500CP for a cool Mecha, but I worked with your numbers. I hope I have not overlooked something.
With honest respect (and 0 sarcasm), to your aesthetic sensibilities I am forced to call you 'nitpicking', because;
Quote:
Originally Posted by B37, Allies
The progression above extends indefinitely for nonsentient (IQ0) Allies; each +50% of the PC’s starting points costs a further +5 points
which is what sent me down this rabbit hole. I think it's the entire crux of "allies are broken" discussions which is what this has become.

I LIKE the Alternate Form idea! Thanks for doing that math.

Its extremely interesting that Alternate form returns 228CP
While IQ0 Ally with possession and puppet returns 256 CP

Those point costs are pretty close. They can't both be broken.

NOTE to all: I'm not married to the Ally idea I just haven't had time to look at the other schemes referenced in the pyramid article yet.
onetrikpony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2020, 08:03 PM   #29
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: What happens if; Points for gear

Quote:
Originally Posted by onetrikpony View Post
I'm not sure I see your point. e.
I'm sure you don't. My point is that DR costs so much in comparison to everything else that this distorts the system when mimicking modern or ultra technology. You can come up with a number but if you then start buying things based on those numbers you get wonky results.

This is why Supers games get so difficult when you try and mix point buys and cash buys.
__________________
Fred Brackin
Fred Brackin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2020, 05:14 AM   #30
Maz
 
Maz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Denmark
Default Re: What happens if; Points for gear

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
ehh, they ought to pay roughly the same amount for roughly the same abilities. That's one of the core design philosophies behind gurps. But my solution usually is to make certain advantages (like DR and ST) priced like gear, not the other way around.

Yes I've come to use this page: https://water.roto.nu/seikkailu/doku...innate_attacks

And then the math tends to turn out pretty decently.


The DR of such a suit then becomes (assuming TL:9):

b47 DR 75 all locations (sealed, Cant Wear armor -40%) = 75*0,66 (-40%) = 30 cp
b47 DR 30 (torso only -10%, Can't wear armor -40%) 30*0,66 (-50%) = 10 cp
b47 DR 30 (Skull only -70%) = 30*0,66 (-70%) = 6 cp.

So the DR alone now only cost 46 cp, instead of 345.

Last edited by Maz; 04-21-2020 at 05:20 AM.
Maz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
ally, points-for-gear, possession, power-armor, robots

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:54 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.