TL3+1 Mechanical Artillery

Icelander · 11-04-2010, 12:20 AM

In the real world, the invention and widespread adoption of gunpowder quickly made it impractical to continue the advancement of mechanical artillery. No matter how much spring steel ('crossbow' steel) and any number of pulleys and windlasses might have improved lower tech scorpions, arbalests, mangonels and onagers; it would ultimately have been less effective than bombards and cannon.

In a world where gunpowder is rare, unavailable or restricted, however, like many fantasy worlds, this does not apply. Faerun, for example, is a mature TL3+1 in many areas, with functionning TL3+2 gadgets in some areas.

So, how might the artillery devices in GURPS Low-Tech be improved by one or two tech levels of extra design and better materials? Has anyone gone over those tables and wondered?

All ideas welcome. Worked out stats even more welcome.

sir_pudding · 11-04-2010, 03:02 AM

TL 4 physics brings a much better theoretical understanding of mechanical devices. I think that a big innovation would be the ability to test artillery on paper first.

Ze'Manel Cunha · 11-04-2010, 05:44 AM

Compound bows, especially compound Xbows make for some significantly increased firepower which scale up in siege weaponry.

Nitroglycerin and other explosives, as well as Greek Fire and other incendiaries, are all completely different development path tracks from gunpowder, giving you the bang and burn without the chemical propellant guns.

Dangerious P. Cats · 11-04-2010, 08:29 AM

I suspect you'd get people making better/more efficient ways to draw/load crossbows and people would seek better ways to destroy castles. You might get some kind of ready to assemble trebuchets to reduce building time, and drilling soldiers in assembling would help also.

Jerron · 11-04-2010, 09:00 AM

Pumpkin Chuckin'. :P

Seriously, steam cannon are an excellent possibility, one which was attempted during the American Civil War. All reports indicate it was fairly successful, just not as good as gunpowder.

Turhan's Bey Company · 11-04-2010, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerron

Seriously, steam cannon are an excellent possibility, one which was attempted during the American Civil War.

And suggested rather earlier. Possibly much earlier. See GURPS Fantasy-Tech 1 for details.

Ulzgoroth · 11-04-2010, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha

Nitroglycerin and other explosives, as well as Greek Fire and other incendiaries, are all completely different development path tracks from gunpowder, giving you the bang and burn without the chemical propellant guns.

Not that different. For the explosives, it's nitrate chemistry either way. And saltpeter is a useful component of incendiaries too, though I don't know whether Greek Fire is likely to have used it.

Anthony · 11-04-2010, 11:28 AM

Well, improvements in materials, gearing, axles, and pulleys should gradually bump efficiency over the course of TL 3+1, generally resulting in some mix of weight reduction, crew size reduction, or rate of fire increase. While historically compound bows/crossbows are TL 7, they are probably possible at TL 6 and maybe TL 5, and have two major effects: they increase the maximum practical draw length of a bow or crossbow, and they modify the force curve, allowing somewhat more energy to be stored in a bow with a given draw length and draw strength. A TL 4+1 steel compound crossbow would use full ST for computing damage. In terms of actually new and different options, both vulcanized rubber and coil springs are TL 5.

martinl · 11-04-2010, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icelander

So, how might the artillery devices in GURPS Low-Tech be improved by one or two tech levels of extra design and better materials?

I'm thinking a trebuchet would be significantly more effective with some combination of improved pivots, standardized lead ammo, and reliable&repeatable shot release. A good understanding of ballistics wouldn't hurt either.

More range and accuracy.

Some sort of power take-off could be run along fortifications to power-reload crossbows.

Icelander · 11-04-2010, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

TL 4 physics brings a much better theoretical understanding of mechanical devices. I think that a big innovation would be the ability to test artillery on paper first.

Very good.

How would that affect the stats for them? What TL2-3 artillery devices suffer from design flaws that could be corrected at TL3+1?

11-04-2010, 12:20 AM	#1
Icelander Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Iceland*	TL3+1 Mechanical Artillery In the real world, the invention and widespread adoption of gunpowder quickly made it impractical to continue the advancement of mechanical artillery. No matter how much spring steel ('crossbow' steel) and any number of pulleys and windlasses might have improved lower tech scorpions, arbalests, mangonels and onagers; it would ultimately have been less effective than bombards and cannon. In a world where gunpowder is rare, unavailable or restricted, however, like many fantasy worlds, this does not apply. Faerun, for example, is a mature TL3+1 in many areas, with functionning TL3+2 gadgets in some areas. So, how might the artillery devices in GURPS Low-Tech be improved by one or two tech levels of extra design and better materials? Has anyone gone over those tables and wondered? All ideas welcome. Worked out stats even more welcome. __________________ Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!

11-04-2010, 03:02 AM	#2
sir_pudding Wielder of Smart Pants Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Ventura CA	Re: TL3+1 Mechanical Artillery TL 4 physics brings a much better theoretical understanding of mechanical devices. I think that a big innovation would be the ability to test artillery on paper first.

11-04-2010, 05:44 AM	#3
Ze'Manel Cunha Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Stuttgart, Germany	Re: TL3+1 Mechanical Artillery Compound bows, especially compound Xbows make for some significantly increased firepower which scale up in siege weaponry. Nitroglycerin and other explosives, as well as Greek Fire and other incendiaries, are all completely different development path tracks from gunpowder, giving you the bang and burn without the chemical propellant guns.

11-04-2010, 08:29 AM	#4
Dangerious P. Cats Join Date: Sep 2007	Re: TL3+1 Mechanical Artillery I suspect you'd get people making better/more efficient ways to draw/load crossbows and people would seek better ways to destroy castles. You might get some kind of ready to assemble trebuchets to reduce building time, and drilling soldiers in assembling would help also. __________________ There is no "i" in team, but there is in Dangerious!

11-04-2010, 09:00 AM	#5
Jerron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Detroit	Re: TL3+1 Mechanical Artillery Pumpkin Chuckin'. :P Seriously, steam cannon are an excellent possibility, one which was attempted during the American Civil War. All reports indicate it was fairly successful, just not as good as gunpowder.

11-04-2010, 11:28 AM	#8
Anthony Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Berkeley, CA	Re: TL3+1 Mechanical Artillery Well, improvements in materials, gearing, axles, and pulleys should gradually bump efficiency over the course of TL 3+1, generally resulting in some mix of weight reduction, crew size reduction, or rate of fire increase. While historically compound bows/crossbows are TL 7, they are probably possible at TL 6 and maybe TL 5, and have two major effects: they increase the maximum practical draw length of a bow or crossbow, and they modify the force curve, allowing somewhat more energy to be stored in a bow with a given draw length and draw strength. A TL 4+1 steel compound crossbow would use full ST for computing damage. In terms of actually new and different options, both vulcanized rubber and coil springs are TL 5.