Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > The Fantasy Trip > The Fantasy Trip: House Rules

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-19-2022, 11:10 PM   #1
David Bofinger
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Sydney, Australia
Default Variable Strength Weapons

This is a first stab at how a system might work in which weapon damage was a function of ST for each type of weapon. It has more weapons than maybe a first stab should have, and doesn't handle missile weapons yet. It unfortunately requires consulting a table at generation time: I don't immediately know how to avoid that. It uses a metric to make all the weapons equally powerful, but the metric needs work.
  • Unarmed: HTH 3, Melee 4; Damage 4; Length 0; Non-penetrating
  • Dagger: HTH 3, Melee 4, Throw 4; Damage 6, Charge 7; Length 1
  • Seax: HTH 3, Melee 3; Damage 12, Charge 13; Length 2
  • Shortsword: HTH 4, Melee 3; Damage 11, Charge 13; Length 3
  • Spatha: Melee 3; Damage 12; Length 4; Non-penetrating
  • Bastard Sword: Melee 3; Damage 11, Charge 13; Length 4
  • Bastard Sword: Melee 3; Damage 13, Charge 15; Length 4
  • War Hammer: Melee 3; Damage 12; Length 4
  • War Axe: Melee 3, Throw 4; Damage 12; Length 4; Non-penetrating
  • Greatsword: Melee 3, Jab 4; Damage 12, Charge 14; Length 6
  • Greataxe: Melee 3; Damage 13; Length 5; Non-penetrating
  • Javelin: Melee 3, Throw 3; Damage 9, Charge 12; Length 6
  • Spear: Melee 3, Jab 4, Throw 4; Damage 9, Charge 12; Length 7
  • Spear: Melee 3, Jab 3, Throw 4; Damage 10, Charge 13; Length 7
  • Long Spear: Melee 4, Jab 3; Damage 13, Charge 16; Length 8
  • Halberd: Melee 3, Jab 3; Damage 11, Charge 12; Length 7; Non-penetrating
  • Pollaxe: Melee 3, Jab 3; Damage 11, Charge 12; Length 7
  • Club: Melee 3; Damage 8; Length 4; Non-penetrating
  • Maul: Melee 3; Damage 10; Length 4; Non-penetrating

Looking at, as an example, dagger, it can be used in HTH at 3/DX to hit, in melee at 4/DX to hit, does damage from column 6 in most attacks and 7 in a charge, and has length 1.

Length is a mechanic that generalises pole weapon priority. If A and B weren't adjacent at the start of the turn, and A attacks B, but B has a longer weapon than A, then B can do an interrupt attack on A before A attacks. I'm considering making ST a tiebreak for weapon length. Also, in a cramped environment the GM might impose a -1 DX modifier for every point of length over some threshold.

"Non-penetrating" is a mechanic I haven't entirely figured out, but I'm thinking maybe the weapon gets +2 damage and armour is doubled, something like that.

The damage system is exponential, each +1 in damage class is worth a factor of about 1.14. Each level of fine weapon or +1 damage might be worth a +1 in damage class.

The enormous table looks like this:
  • Damage Class 0 - ST 4: 1d-5; ST 5: 1d-5; ST 6: 1d-5; ST 7: 1d-5; ST 8: 1d-4; ST 9: 1d-4; ST 10: 1d-3; ST 11: 1d-3; ST 12: 1d-2; ST 13: 1d-2; ST 14: 1d-2; ST 15: 1d-1; ST 16: 1d-1; ST 17: 1d-1; ST 18: 1d-1; ST 19: 1d+0; ST 20: 1d+0; ST 21: 1d+0; ST 22: 1d+0; ST 23: 2d-3; ST 24: 2d-3; ST 25: 1d+1; ST 26: 1d+1; ST 27: 2d-2; ST 28: 2d-2; ST 29: 1d+2; ST 30: 1d+2
  • Damage Class 1 - ST 4: 1d-5; ST 5: 1d-5; ST 6: 1d-5; ST 7: 1d-5; ST 8: 1d-4; ST 9: 1d-3; ST 10: 1d-3; ST 11: 1d-2; ST 12: 1d-2; ST 13: 1d-2; ST 14: 1d-1; ST 15: 1d-1; ST 16: 1d-1; ST 17: 1d-1; ST 18: 1d+0; ST 19: 1d+0; ST 20: 1d+0; ST 21: 2d-3; ST 22: 1d+1; ST 23: 1d+1; ST 24: 2d-2; ST 25: 2d-2; ST 26: 1d+2; ST 27: 1d+2; ST 28: 2d-1; ST 29: 2d-1; ST 30: 1d+3
  • Damage Class 2 - ST 4: 1d-5; ST 5: 1d-5; ST 6: 1d-5; ST 7: 1d-5; ST 8: 1d-4; ST 9: 1d-3; ST 10: 1d-3; ST 11: 1d-2; ST 12: 1d-2; ST 13: 1d-1; ST 14: 1d-1; ST 15: 1d-1; ST 16: 1d+0; ST 17: 1d+0; ST 18: 1d+0; ST 19: 2d-3; ST 20: 1d+1; ST 21: 1d+1; ST 22: 2d-2; ST 23: 2d-2; ST 24: 1d+2; ST 25: 2d-1; ST 26: 2d-1; ST 27: 1d+3; ST 28: 2d+0; ST 29: 2d+0; ST 30: 3d-3
  • Damage Class 3 - ST 4: 1d-5; ST 5: 1d-5; ST 6: 1d-5; ST 7: 1d-4; ST 8: 1d-4; ST 9: 1d-3; ST 10: 1d-2; ST 11: 1d-2; ST 12: 1d-1; ST 13: 1d-1; ST 14: 1d-1; ST 15: 1d+0; ST 16: 1d+0; ST 17: 2d-3; ST 18: 2d-3; ST 19: 1d+1; ST 20: 2d-2; ST 21: 1d+2; ST 22: 1d+2; ST 23: 2d-1; ST 24: 1d+3; ST 25: 1d+3; ST 26: 2d+0; ST 27: 3d-3; ST 28: 3d-3; ST 29: 2d+1; ST 30: 3d-2
  • Damage Class 4 - ST 4: 1d-5; ST 5: 1d-5; ST 6: 1d-5; ST 7: 1d-4; ST 8: 1d-3; ST 9: 1d-3; ST 10: 1d-2; ST 11: 1d-2; ST 12: 1d-1; ST 13: 1d-1; ST 14: 1d+0; ST 15: 1d+0; ST 16: 2d-3; ST 17: 1d+1; ST 18: 2d-2; ST 19: 2d-2; ST 20: 1d+2; ST 21: 2d-1; ST 22: 1d+3; ST 23: 2d+0; ST 24: 2d+0; ST 25: 3d-3; ST 26: 2d+1; ST 27: 3d-2; ST 28: 2d+2; ST 29: 2d+2; ST 30: 3d-1
  • Damage Class 5 - ST 4: 1d-5; ST 5: 1d-5; ST 6: 1d-5; ST 7: 1d-4; ST 8: 1d-3; ST 9: 1d-2; ST 10: 1d-2; ST 11: 1d-1; ST 12: 1d-1; ST 13: 1d+0; ST 14: 1d+0; ST 15: 2d-3; ST 16: 1d+1; ST 17: 2d-2; ST 18: 1d+2; ST 19: 2d-1; ST 20: 1d+3; ST 21: 2d+0; ST 22: 3d-3; ST 23: 2d+1; ST 24: 2d+1; ST 25: 3d-2; ST 26: 2d+2; ST 27: 3d-1; ST 28: 2d+3; ST 29: 3d+0; ST 30: 4d-3
  • Damage Class 6 - ST 4: 1d-5; ST 5: 1d-5; ST 6: 1d-5; ST 7: 1d-4; ST 8: 1d-3; ST 9: 1d-2; ST 10: 1d-1; ST 11: 1d-1; ST 12: 1d+0; ST 13: 1d+0; ST 14: 2d-3; ST 15: 1d+1; ST 16: 2d-2; ST 17: 2d-1; ST 18: 1d+3; ST 19: 2d+0; ST 20: 3d-3; ST 21: 2d+1; ST 22: 3d-2; ST 23: 2d+2; ST 24: 3d-1; ST 25: 2d+3; ST 26: 3d+0; ST 27: 4d-3; ST 28: 3d+1; ST 29: 4d-2; ST 30: 3d+2
  • Damage Class 7 - ST 4: 1d-5; ST 5: 1d-5; ST 6: 1d-5; ST 7: 1d-4; ST 8: 1d-3; ST 9: 1d-2; ST 10: 1d-1; ST 11: 1d-1; ST 12: 1d+0; ST 13: 2d-3; ST 14: 2d-2; ST 15: 1d+2; ST 16: 2d-1; ST 17: 1d+3; ST 18: 2d+0; ST 19: 2d+1; ST 20: 3d-2; ST 21: 2d+2; ST 22: 3d-1; ST 23: 2d+3; ST 24: 4d-3; ST 25: 3d+1; ST 26: 4d-2; ST 27: 3d+2; ST 28: 4d-1; ST 29: 4d+0; ST 30: 5d-3
  • Damage Class 8 - ST 4: 1d-5; ST 5: 1d-5; ST 6: 1d-4; ST 7: 1d-4; ST 8: 1d-2; ST 9: 1d-2; ST 10: 1d-1; ST 11: 1d+0; ST 12: 2d-3; ST 13: 2d-2; ST 14: 1d+2; ST 15: 2d-1; ST 16: 2d+0; ST 17: 3d-3; ST 18: 2d+1; ST 19: 2d+2; ST 20: 3d-1; ST 21: 3d+0; ST 22: 4d-3; ST 23: 3d+1; ST 24: 3d+2; ST 25: 4d-1; ST 26: 3d+3; ST 27: 5d-3; ST 28: 4d+1; ST 29: 5d-2; ST 30: 5d-1
  • Damage Class 9 - ST 4: 1d-5; ST 5: 1d-5; ST 6: 1d-4; ST 7: 1d-3; ST 8: 1d-2; ST 9: 1d-1; ST 10: 1d+0; ST 11: 2d-3; ST 12: 1d+1; ST 13: 1d+2; ST 14: 1d+3; ST 15: 2d+0; ST 16: 2d+1; ST 17: 3d-2; ST 18: 3d-1; ST 19: 2d+3; ST 20: 4d-3; ST 21: 3d+1; ST 22: 3d+2; ST 23: 3d+3; ST 24: 4d+0; ST 25: 4d+1; ST 26: 5d-2; ST 27: 5d-1; ST 28: 4d+3; ST 29: 6d-3; ST 30: 6d-2
  • Damage Class 10 - ST 4: 1d-5; ST 5: 1d-5; ST 6: 1d-4; ST 7: 1d-3; ST 8: 1d-2; ST 9: 1d-1; ST 10: 1d+0; ST 11: 1d+1; ST 12: 1d+2; ST 13: 1d+3; ST 14: 2d+0; ST 15: 2d+1; ST 16: 2d+2; ST 17: 2d+3; ST 18: 3d+0; ST 19: 3d+1; ST 20: 3d+2; ST 21: 3d+3; ST 22: 5d-3; ST 23: 4d+1; ST 24: 4d+2; ST 25: 4d+3; ST 26: 6d-3; ST 27: 6d-2; ST 28: 5d+2; ST 29: 5d+3; ST 30: 7d-3
  • Damage Class 11 - ST 4: 1d-5; ST 5: 1d-5; ST 6: 1d-4; ST 7: 1d-3; ST 8: 1d-2; ST 9: 1d+0; ST 10: 2d-3; ST 11: 2d-2; ST 12: 2d-1; ST 13: 2d+0; ST 14: 2d+1; ST 15: 2d+2; ST 16: 2d+3; ST 17: 4d-3; ST 18: 3d+2; ST 19: 3d+3; ST 20: 5d-3; ST 21: 5d-2; ST 22: 5d-1; ST 23: 5d+0; ST 24: 5d+1; ST 25: 5d+2; ST 26: 5d+3; ST 27: 7d-3; ST 28: 7d-2; ST 29: 7d-1; ST 30: 8d-2
  • Damage Class 12 - ST 4: 1d-5; ST 5: 1d-5; ST 6: 1d-4; ST 7: 1d-3; ST 8: 1d-1; ST 9: 1d+0; ST 10: 1d+1; ST 11: 2d-1; ST 12: 2d+0; ST 13: 2d+1; ST 14: 3d-1; ST 15: 3d+0; ST 16: 3d+1; ST 17: 4d-1; ST 18: 4d+0; ST 19: 4d+1; ST 20: 5d-1; ST 21: 5d+0; ST 22: 5d+1; ST 23: 6d-1; ST 24: 6d+0; ST 25: 6d+1; ST 26: 7d-1; ST 27: 8d-2; ST 28: 8d-1; ST 29: 9d-3; ST 30: 9d-2
  • Damage Class 13 - ST 4: 1d-5; ST 5: 1d-4; ST 6: 1d-4; ST 7: 1d-2; ST 8: 1d-1; ST 9: 2d-3; ST 10: 1d+2; ST 11: 1d+3; ST 12: 2d+1; ST 13: 3d-1; ST 14: 3d+0; ST 15: 4d-2; ST 16: 3d+3; ST 17: 5d-3; ST 18: 4d+2; ST 19: 5d+0; ST 20: 5d+1; ST 21: 6d-1; ST 22: 7d-3; ST 23: 7d-2; ST 24: 6d+3; ST 25: 7d+1; ST 26: 8d+0; ST 27: 9d-2; ST 28: 8d+3; ST 29: 10d-3; ST 30: 9d+2
  • Damage Class 14 - ST 4: 1d-5; ST 5: 1d-4; ST 6: 1d-3; ST 7: 1d-2; ST 8: 1d+0; ST 9: 1d+1; ST 10: 2d-1; ST 11: 3d-3; ST 12: 2d+2; ST 13: 3d+0; ST 14: 4d-2; ST 15: 3d+3; ST 16: 4d+1; ST 17: 4d+3; ST 18: 5d+1; ST 19: 6d-1; ST 20: 7d-3; ST 21: 6d+2; ST 22: 7d+0; ST 23: 8d-1; ST 24: 8d+1; ST 25: 9d-1; ST 26: 10d-3; ST 27: 9d+2; ST 28: 10d+0; ST 29: 11d-2; ST 30: 10d+3
  • Damage Class 15 - ST 4: 1d-5; ST 5: 1d-4; ST 6: 1d-3; ST 7: 1d-2; ST 8: 1d+0; ST 9: 2d-2; ST 10: 2d+0; ST 11: 3d-2; ST 12: 3d+0; ST 13: 4d-2; ST 14: 4d+0; ST 15: 5d-2; ST 16: 5d+0; ST 17: 6d-2; ST 18: 6d+0; ST 19: 7d-2; ST 20: 7d+0; ST 21: 7d+2; ST 22: 9d-2; ST 23: 8d+3; ST 24: 10d-2; ST 25: 9d+3; ST 26: 11d-2; ST 27: 10d+3; ST 28: 12d-2; ST 29: 11d+3; ST 30: 12d+1
  • Damage Class 16 - ST 4: 1d-5; ST 5: 1d-4; ST 6: 1d-3; ST 7: 1d-2; ST 8: 2d-3; ST 9: 2d-1; ST 10: 2d+1; ST 11: 2d+3; ST 12: 4d-2; ST 13: 4d+0; ST 14: 4d+2; ST 15: 6d-3; ST 16: 6d-1; ST 17: 6d+1; ST 18: 6d+3; ST 19: 8d-1; ST 20: 9d-2; ST 21: 9d+0; ST 22: 9d+2; ST 23: 11d-3; ST 24: 11d-1; ST 25: 11d+1; ST 26: 11d+3; ST 27: 12d+1; ST 28: 12d+3; ST 29: 12d+3; ST 30: 12d+3
  • Damage Class 17 - ST 4: 1d-5; ST 5: 1d-4; ST 6: 1d-3; ST 7: 1d-1; ST 8: 1d+1; ST 9: 2d+0; ST 10: 2d+2; ST 11: 3d+1; ST 12: 3d+3; ST 13: 4d+2; ST 14: 6d-3; ST 15: 5d+3; ST 16: 6d+2; ST 17: 7d+1; ST 18: 7d+3; ST 19: 8d+3; ST 20: 9d+2; ST 21: 11d-3; ST 22: 10d+3; ST 23: 12d-2; ST 24: 12d+0; ST 25: 12d+3; ST 26: 12d+3; ST 27: 12d+3; ST 28: 12d+3; ST 29: 12d+3; ST 30: 12d+3
David Bofinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2022, 12:55 PM   #2
Shostak
 
Shostak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: New England
Default Re: Variable Strength Weapons

There are some interesting possibilities there, David, especially with reach.

I've been toying with ST-based damage that stays close to RAW generally but also corrects the problem that a javelin is often better used as a club by RAW. I've not worked it all out yet, and I understand that it blurs some weapon distinctions, but here's a draft:

Start with the ST-based damage listed on ITL 122. Then, assign each weapon on the list a modifier so that at the ST required for a weapon by RAW you get close to RAW damage. For instance, Club gets +1; Dagger gets +2; Rapier +3, Saber +4, Shortsword +5; Broadsword, Bastard Sword +6; Larger swords +7; javelin, spear +2. Stacking with this are bonuses for using a weapon in HTH: +1, and using a weapon 2-handed: +2, if they are able to be used that way.

A ST 9 figure will do the following RAW/House Rule:
Bare Hands 1d-3/1d-3
Club 1d/1d-2
2-handed Club 1d+1/1d
Dagger 1d-1/1d-1
Rapier: 1d/1d
Javelin: 1d-1/1d-1
2-handed Javelin: n.a./1d+1

A ST 11 figure would do:
Bare Hands 1d-2/1d-2
Club 1d+1/1d-1
2-handed Club 1d+2/1d+1
Dagger 1d-1/1d
Rapier: 1d/1d+1
Saber: 2d-2/1d+2
Shortsword: 2d-1/1d+3 = 2d-1
Javelin: 1d-1/1d
2-handed Javelin: n.a./1d+2
Spear: 1d/1d
2-handed Spear: 1d+1/1d+2

A ST 12 figure would do:
Bare Hands 1d-2/1d-2
Club 1d+1/1d-1
2-handed Club 1d+2/1d+1
Dagger 1d-1/1d
Rapier: 1d/1d+1
Saber: 2d-2/1d+2 = 2d-2
Shortsword: 2d-1/1d+3 = 2d-1
Broadsword: 2d/1d+4 = 2d
Javelin: 1d-1/1d
2-handed Javelin: n.a./1d+2
Spear: 1d/1d
2-handed Spear: 1d+1/1d+2

A ST 14 figure would do:
Bare Hands 1d-1/1d-1
Club 1d+2/1d
2-handed Club 1d+3/1d+2
Dagger 1d-1/1d+1
Rapier: 1d/1d+2
Saber: 2d-2/1d+3 = 2d-1
Shortsword: 2d-1/2d
Broadsword: 2d/1d+5 = 2d+1
Bastard Sword 1h: 2d+1/2d+1
Bastard Sword 2h: 3d-2/1d+7=2d+3 = 3d-1
Two-handed Sword: 3d-1/1d+8 = 3d
Javelin: 1d-1/1d+1
2-handed Javelin: n.a./1d+3 = 2d-1
Spear: 1d/1d+1
2-handed Spear: 1d+1/1d+3=2d-1


But when it comes down to it, this isn't radically different from just giving +1 damage for each 2 ST above what the weapon requires.
__________________
* * * *
Anthony Shostak
myriangia.wordpress.com

Last edited by Shostak; 07-20-2022 at 09:49 PM.
Shostak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2022, 01:27 AM   #3
David Bofinger
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Sydney, Australia
Default Re: Variable Strength Weapons

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shostak View Post
Start with the ST-based damage listed on ITL 122. Then, assign each weapon on the list a modifier [...] Club gets +1; Dagger gets +2; Rapier +3, Saber +4, Shortsword +5; Broadsword, Bastard Sword +6; Larger swords +7; javelin, spear +2
I'm not clear if e.g. a ST 9 character is allowed to choose to wield a bastard sword? If so then why use a smaller weapon? If not then you haven't changed much.

ITL 122 has a much lower slope of damage vs ST than RAW TFT weapons within a category do. If we add a fixed amount to it then we devalue ST and help make it more of a dump stat.

Quote:
But when it comes down to it, this isn't radically different from just giving +1 damage for each 2 ST above what the weapon requires.
I'm trying to reward larger ST, but I'm also trying to create a range of weapons with distinctive characteristics, e.g. a sword that is mostly for melee but can be used in HTH in an emergency.
David Bofinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2022, 05:31 AM   #4
Shostak
 
Shostak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: New England
Default Re: Variable Strength Weapons

My post was really an overelaborated look at what damage weapons should do above ST-based damage with fixing the issue with clubs.

Reach with a weapon is a factor that could add a lot of fun tactical nuance, as it does in GURPS, but TFT’s long turn length and larger hex size undermine some of that. Damage type also has a huge amount of potential for making cutting, impaling, and crushing weapons have different affects on basic damage or interact with armor differently. I’d think that weapons like maces would be more effective against armed rather than less, since they were historically employed against heavily armored opponents.
__________________
* * * *
Anthony Shostak
myriangia.wordpress.com
Shostak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2022, 11:52 AM   #5
TippetsTX
 
TippetsTX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: North Texas
Default Re: Variable Strength Weapons

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Bofinger View Post
The enormous table looks like this:
I'm getting flashbacks to ROLEMASTER.
__________________
“No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style.” -Vladimir Taltos
TippetsTX is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2022, 01:20 AM   #6
Jack O'All Trades
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Default Re: Variable Strength Weapons

This is fascinating. It's probably more detail than I normally require, but I definitely want to try this out in a Melee arena context to see how it plays - I suspect that, like GURPS, in most cases it doesn't complicate the actual gameplay all that much, just character creation.

EDIT:
Some of the choices do seem a bit odd, to me. Why does the shortsword get a charge bonus but the spatha doesn't? On the other hand, why is only the spatha a non-penetrating sword? The seax seems like a very large upgrade from a dagger in HtH and melee, with the only loss being the quite weak thrown attack for the dagger.

Last edited by Jack O'All Trades; 07-23-2022 at 01:30 AM.
Jack O'All Trades is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2022, 08:36 AM   #7
David Bofinger
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Sydney, Australia
Default Re: Variable Strength Weapons

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack O'All Trades View Post
doesn't complicate the actual gameplay all that much, just character creation.
That's the objective, it needs work.

Quote:
Why does the shortsword get a charge bonus but the spatha doesn't?
Gladius was basically a thrusting weapon, spatha is basically a cutting weapon. I figured thrusting would benefit from a charge. Not clear this is a good idea.

Quote:
why is only the spatha a non-penetrating sword?
I was trying to distinguish it from the war axe. Again, not clear it's a good idea.

Quote:
The seax seems like a very large upgrade from a dagger in HtH and melee, with the only loss being the quite weak thrown attack for the dagger.
Yes, I think the metric needs work.

Thanks for the comments.

Last edited by David Bofinger; 07-26-2022 at 08:38 AM. Reason: Failed to finish post
David Bofinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2022, 10:03 AM   #8
Bill_in_IN
 
Join Date: Dec 2021
Location: Indiana
Default Re: Variable Strength Weapons

Allow me to propose something a little different but is somewhat based upon the Advantages of Great Strength on ITL, page 15. I apologize in advance for not absorbing the prior charts in detail so, If what I'm about to post is covered in them, please let me know.

Quote:
Two-handed weapons: A figure with a ST that is 3 or more above the minimum ST required for a 2-handed weapon may use it one-handed. (This does not apply to bows or crossbows – only to hand weapons.)
This relationship to using two-handed weapons with one hand could be extrapolated or rather, applied to one-handed weapons. I will first give an example of human-sized two-handed weapons as stated in the Weapons Table and then draw the parallel to one-handed weapons.

So, a character at ST 17 or above could wield a Two-handed Sword with one hand and a ST 18 or above character could wield a Great Sword with one hand. Of course, most of such characters wold be a Giant or Gargoyle in Legacy TFT but the relationship of this ST advantage is defined.

So, you have a ST 13 character wielding a Saber (2D6-2) requiring an ST of 10 to wield. One could add one more point of damage for his ST for every 3 ST above minimum ST to wield. Thus, for this character, his Saber damage is now 2D6-1.

So, in a nutshell, this is how I would state it. For each integer multiple of 3 ST above the minimum required to wield a one-handed weapon, a damage bonus of +1 is applied. We could debate some sort of cap based upon weapon specifics but this is how the modification would work.

+ 3, 4. or 5 ST = +1 Damage Modifier
+ 6, 7, or 8 ST = +2 Damage Modifier
+ 9, 10, or 11 ST = +3 Damage Modifier
etc.
[(Actual ST) - (Minimum ST to Wield)]/3 = Truncate(Resultant Modifier Calculation)

This modification could also apply to two-handed weapons provided that they are still used as two-handed weapons. However, Giants, due to their size and strength, would get a 1D6+1 modifier for every 10 ST above minimum ST required to wield a two-handed weapon (based upon two-handed club damage with no minimum ST requirement per Melee, page 21). If they are using a two-handed weapon with one-hand, then the previously described one-hand-damage mod would apply after +3 ST required to wield with one-hand.

This may be a summarization of what has already been posted in this thread. However, I like to base extrapolations and interpolations on existing and accepted specifications. That is why I cited Advantages of Great Strength as the starting point for these ST based damage modifications. However, it provides a calculation in place of a chart.

Last edited by Bill_in_IN; 07-26-2022 at 11:35 AM.
Bill_in_IN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2022, 03:45 PM   #9
Nils_Lindeberg
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Default Re: Variable Strength Weapons

I would go with something simple as well:

Clubs do +2 and +3 for 1H respectively 2H.
This solves the problem with clubs being better than Javelins when not charging.

Javelin and spears do +1 damage when thrown with a cord (a minor point). These weapons are made for throwing and should be better than other throwing weapons for the same ST. They shouldn't be penalized for charging, jabbing, and first strike abilities when used as a thrown weapon.
A spear thrower is not cumulative with the cord bonus damage, so only +2.

When you use a weapon that is optimal for your ST, you get an increase in damage at 1:1 when increasing your ST.

Clubs get a 1:2 damage increase. Hence clubs are very good at low ST and useless at high ST. That is ok. Let monsters like Ogres and Giants use inferior weapons, no one wants to get hit by 5D6 due to aggressive scaling.

Normal weapons wielded by a stronger fighter should scale upwards, at least equally well to the sub-par clubs, which means, at least 1:2.

If we don't have this scaling an ST 15 fighter without a weapon looting an ST 9 guy with a hatchet and a club will choose the club over the hatchet. This is bad. With this rule, they would both scale equally and the hatchet would be a slightly better choice.

This scaling should continue up to +5 dmg for having 10 more ST than the minimum. If you have 13 more ST you could also wield a 2H weapon in 1H and do +5 damage.
After that, if the GM thinks it is appropriate (like a giant with a Great Sword) you can give out +1 damage for every extra 5ST, following the rule 1:5 at the top of the ST DAMAGE table.

All weapons have a minimum ST, if none is noted, assume it is 8.

If an ST 6 character uses a Dagger (ST 8 minimum) they will do so at the normal penalty of -2DX and -1 damage.
If they don't want the DX penalty, they could special order a small version of a dagger and it would most likely do 1d-3, and a very fine version would do 1d-1 with the minimum ST of 6.We stick to the standard rules and also eliminate the Halfling Flinger archetype problem.

Slings should do ST-based damage +1. They can be used with a shield.
A 2H staff sling does ST-based damage +2. And it can also be used as a 2H Club for the same damage.

Given these changes, I think the weapon table is pretty much fixed.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I would like to see some more (optional rule) bonuses per weapon type:

Examples:
Flails: Ignores enemy shields.

Picks: Do 1 more damage against 3p armor or more.

Axes: Do double damage against stationary objects and +1 damage against lightly armored enemies, less than 3p.

Hammers/Maces: Do 1 damage even when they do not penetrate armor.

Swords: You give the opponent -1DX if they have a 1H weapon and you have a 1H sword, or you both have 2H weapons.

Spears: are special and popular enough. But just to make them a little better and simpler to use. If you or your enemy weren't adjacent at the start of the turn, and now you are, you get the charge bonus. Simple and a little bit better than the current charge rules.

Missile weapons can have fine ammunition at x10 the price. Longbows are already considered to have this, that is why they do 1 extra damage.

You can buy a bow with heavier draw weight and get the 1:2 damage bonus for a higher ST. A ST 12 Horsebow will do 1d+1, and with fine arrows 1d+2.

That will fill in some gaps in the weapons table without making it longer.



There is also room for ST 12 and ST 14 Pole weapons. Just take the average values:
Heavy Spear, ST 12 1H 1d+1, 2H 1d+2, cost 55$ 11lbs.
Bardish, ST 14 2H 2d+1, cost 85$,14lbs

The same weapon variations can be made for someone that wants an ST 9 flail or an ST 12 Mace.
They are easy enough to calculate/extrapolate when needed.

Before the above bonuses, it wasn't really important if you wielded a custom-made ST 12 Mace or a standard ST 12 Waraxe, but now that they have different effects (see above), it matters.
Nils_Lindeberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2022, 11:15 AM   #10
Hrothgar Rannúlfr
 
Hrothgar Rannúlfr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Default Re: Variable Strength Weapons

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nils_Lindeberg View Post
If we don't have this scaling an ST 15 fighter without a weapon looting an ST 9 guy with a hatchet and a club will choose the club over the hatchet. This is bad.
I don't think that all clubs should be equal. An halfling's club doesn't have the mass to do additional damage in the hands of a giant, for instance.

At least, that's my thought.

So, unless the fighter with the 15 ST is looting someone that also had a club that required a 15 ST, the club will do less damage or be too unwieldy (due to excessive mass) to be utilized by the looter.

Thoughts?
Hrothgar Rannúlfr is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:59 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.