[Powers] Warp that takes some time to complete

[chandley]

Okay, I have Warp (Long Ranged +50%; Gyroscopic +10%; Extra Heavy Enc +50%; Blink +25%; Psi -20%; ). Source material Im emulating states it can take between 0 (instant) and roughly 30 seconds to reach your destination once you teleport, depending on your margin of success. Im ruling that having Blink lets you shorten this to 0 to 5 seconds for 10 yard or less 'ports.

Note: This is not preparation time. This is time spent "nowhere" as you teleport.

So the mechanic I mean to emulate is: Warp takes a skill roll at -10 for No preparation time. If you make that Skill roll exactly (MOS 0) you take 5 seconds (for <10 yards). If you make it by 5, you cover the distance in no time at all. During the 5 seconds, you are "off the map". In the source, your traveling through a universal reference plane, the noetic medium.

So, obviously I cast my eye to Hyperjump. But its no good, being far to specific to a particular kind of hyperspeed.

I feel that possibly missing out on 5 seconds of combat (or as much as 30 seconds if you wanted to make a significant jump!) is actually worthy of a serious limitation. Im pondering something between -60% for non-combat use only (a la the Non-combat speed limit on Altered Time Rate) and treating the extra time as about half as annoying as Preparation time and using the +5% per +1 for Reliable to estimate a limit from the Preparation Time chart: i.e. 5 seconds is +7 easier than no seconds, and so is -35%, 30 seconds is +10 easier and so is -50%. Halved for not being prep time.

Apply the inverse of Limited by MOS to both solutions. So something like:
Takes Travel Time 30 seconds (Based on MOS 5 steps -25%) -18.75%
Blink (Takes Travel Time 5 seconds (Based on MOS 5 steps -25%) -13.125%) +21.7%.

Not sure how I would combine the first with the second though. Can I reduce the limit value of the 30 seconds version by 0.1875 * .217 = 4% as a "Doesnt affect Blink" limit on the limit?

My head hurts :). What does the hive mind think?

[lexington]

Originally Posted by chandley

I feel that possibly missing out on 5 seconds of combat (or as much as 30 seconds if you wanted to make a significant jump!) is actually worthy of a serious limitation.

You have to counter balance the slight inconvenience of being late against 5 or 30 seconds of guaranteed invulnerability. The 30 second thing for long jumps isn't much of a limitation unless there are frequently problems where being thirty seconds late will dramatically alter the course of events (and in my experience long jumps out of combat often involve spending a while preparing in order to remove penalties).

[chandley]

Originally Posted by lexington

You have to counter balance the slight inconvenience of being late against 5 or 30 seconds of guaranteed invulnerability. The 30 second thing for long jumps isn't much of a limitation unless there are frequently problems where being thirty seconds late will dramatically alter the course of events (and in my experience long jumps out of combat often involve spending a while preparing in order to remove penalties).

Guaranteed Invulnerability balanced by an inability to do anything at all. You cant even do stuff strictly to yourself. Nothing. Also, your not a valid target, the bad guys will not be wasting shots on your invulnerable self.

If you wanted to teleport back to base to get reloads or medical supplies and get them back to the fight, your friends are without you for as much as a minute. The fact that the bad guys cant kill you for that minute isnt much different from if you just ported instantly back home and waited a minute, so I dont see that as being much of a counterbalance to the fact that you cant get back into the action on a bad roll.

Some times you DO want to jump more than 10 yards in combat time. Heck, MANY times you want to do that. And having a successful Dodge roll prevent you from being attacked or attacking for up to 5 seconds is a definite drawback, if your character is useful at all.

Now, I agree on the whole "30 seconds out of combat is nothing" bit. Thats why I felt it couldnt possibly be a limitation worth more than the -60% given to Non-Combat Speed. The construction I came up with does not violate that. The question is, is it still to much. Do you feel invulnerability coupled with inability lowers this limitation at all?

[Gnomasz]

The thing is, sometimes the intention is not to warp, but "slow yourself". For example, being poisoned and waiting for antidote to be made, you really would like to jump in time. Even if it's intended to be a limitation on Warp, it would end up used very creatively, I'm sure.
That's why the proper way to do this in GURPS is to link Warp with Jumper.
What you need is:
· Warp (Long Ranged +50%; Gyroscopic +10%; Extra Heavy Enc +50%; Blink +25%; Psi -20%; Link: Jumper, +10%)
· Jumper (Time; Link: Warp, +10%; Reduced Fatigue Cost 1, +20%; Blink, +25%; Extra Heavy Enc, +50%; Into future only, -20%; Limited Jump, 30 seconds, -x%; Minimum 5 seconds at 0 MOS, -y%)
Eventually with additional -5% Nuissance Effect on Warp. But not more than that. Jumper makes you unable to do anything while you're not present and still costs 100 points, Link shouldn't be a freebie.
Into future only is priced by me as 50% accessibility, but maybe it should be worth more.
Limited Jump is priced by GM, depending on campaign. I'd say 30 seconds is -75%, like in Maximum Duration.
Minimum 5 seconds at 0 MOS is worth about -10% IMHO. Minimum 1.5 seconds, regardless of MOS would be worth so, if we were stealing values from Minimum Range.

While limits on Jumper could drop it's cost decently, it still should be positive value IMHO. It is usefull, despite combat-time drawbacks (which appear only in "I'd like to resque them" situations. 1 vs. 1, it's not so big limitation.

[lexington]

Originally Posted by chandley

Guaranteed Invulnerability balanced by an inability to do anything at all. You cant even do stuff strictly to yourself. Nothing. Also, your not a valid target, the bad guys will not be wasting shots on your invulnerable self.

If you wanted to teleport back to base to get reloads or medical supplies and get them back to the fight, your friends are without you for as much as a minute. The fact that the bad guys cant kill you for that minute isnt much different from if you just ported instantly back home and waited a minute, so I dont see that as being much of a counterbalance to the fact that you cant get back into the action on a bad roll.

Some times you DO want to jump more than 10 yards in combat time. Heck, MANY times you want to do that. And having a successful Dodge roll prevent you from being attacked or attacking for up to 5 seconds is a definite drawback, if your character is useful at all.

Now, I agree on the whole "30 seconds out of combat is nothing" bit. Thats why I felt it couldnt possibly be a limitation worth more than the -60% given to Non-Combat Speed. The construction I came up with does not violate that. The question is, is it still to much. Do you feel invulnerability coupled with inability lowers this limitation at all?

This is all true, but consider the cost of Takes Extra time which has all the problems of a delayed Warp without the benefit of being invulnerable during the delay. I would start there for building the limitation, maybe just cut it in half.

Five Second Delayed Warp based on Margin of Success would come out to (.15*.75) an -11% limitation.
Thirty Second Delayed Warp would come out to (.25*.75) an -18% limitation.

Simple. Logically consistent. RAW.

[chandley]

Originally Posted by lexington

This is all true, but consider the cost of Takes Extra time which has all the problems of a delayed Warp without the benefit of being invulnerable during the delay. I would start there for building the limitation, maybe just cut it in half.

Five Second Delayed Warp based on Margin of Success would come out to (.15*.75) an -11% limitation.
Thirty Second Delayed Warp would come out to (.25*.75) an -18% limitation.

Simple. Logically consistent. RAW.

Seems pretty much identical to what I did, come from another direction, so thats nice. Means those prices are pretty solid. -30% halved to -15%, for 5 seconds, and -50% halved to -25% for 30 seconds. Throw a cap of -60% (2048 seconds, roughly a half hour) as the max limit. I like it.

[chandley]

Originally Posted by Gnomasz

The thing is, sometimes the intention is not to warp, but "slow yourself". For example, being poisoned and waiting for antidote to be made, you really would like to jump in time. Even if it's intended to be a limitation on Warp, it would end up used very creatively, I'm sure.
That's why the proper way to do this in GURPS is to link Warp with Jumper.

While limits on Jumper could drop it's cost decently, it still should be positive value IMHO. It is usefull, despite combat-time drawbacks (which appear only in "I'd like to resque them" situations. 1 vs. 1, it's not so big limitation.

Err... Traveling 30 seconds into the future doesnt seem like its worth 100 points if you cant then travel _back_. Immunity to Poison, to address your example, is only 15 points and doesnt come with the drawback of not being able to arrange an antidote yourself. 100 points would buy me Diffuse or Insubstantial straight up, both vastly more useful in that same 30 second time frame.

And really, if the problem is that time freezes while you travel, Id fix that simply by saying it doesnt. While you cant really DO anything in hyperspace, you still have a body and various processes (like cyclic attacks) on you when you jump carry on their merry way. I think I can back that decision up with the fact that the Hyperspace limitation on Warp (which technically has you going to another "world" a la jumper) doesnt have you buying Jumper either. Its not a useful place to Jump _to_, and one way time travel to the future isnt really an advantage, especially if you give up the ability to act in the intervening time... its more like a coma.

[Edges]

Using the Hyperspace limitation as a reference may be misleading. It's really only an appropriate limitation in a world that greatly features interplanetary travel. Otherwise, everyone would shave 50 points off the cost of Warp. Having an ability take an extra 1/100 of a second (as would the Hyperspace limitation for most game warps) is not a meaningful limitation.

I'm actually with Gnomasz here. Being able to be nowhere for a few seconds whenever you want sounds like an advantage to me. Especially in combat. Even if you couldn't teleport at all, it could be very useful. It means you don't need to duck behind cover if you're expecting a hail of bullets or an explosion. Maybe you know that the big bad's super strength only lasts a few seconds. There's plenty of things one would consider it an advantage to reliably not have to be around for.

But granted, it can be an inconvenience too. Sometimes you do want to be around (just not right here). I'd call it a wash and just say it's a +0% feature.

YMMV

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by chandley

My head hurts :). What does the hive mind think?

Feature. The disadvantages of it are trivial.

[jeff_wilson]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

Feature. The disadvantages of it are trivial.

[EDIT: sorry, I thought you wrote "advantages". I need a vacation.]
I disbelieve. It adds much of the advantage of stasis fields and of impenetrable stealth to the already impressive ability of teleportation. When you see this guy vanish, not only could he be anywhere, he could additionally be nowhere, and once out of sight he's free to choose between remaining nowhere almost constantly and being anywhere for just long enough to do whatever, as he pleases. Even a surefire, no save, planet-wide instant death ray would have a good chance to leave this guy untouched.