"hostile intent" and "hostile purpose" for spells

[dds_ks]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

If someone has a list of people he intends to kill with a given person on it and he crosses that person's Watchdog area, the spell goes off even if he doesn't know that person is there. On the other hand if someone is merely Intolerant of humans, stumbles across one and kills him if the modified roll is low enough, no initial intent exists until he sees one.

If you compare this with Sense Foes (M 44), I'd say that this version makes Watchdog too cheap: Sense Foes only gives you information just once, whereas Watchdog keeps active for 10 hours. And if you compare cost: Watchdog and Sense Foes (in the area-spell variant) cost the same... if the area has a minimum radius of 2 yards. Just casting on one yard radius, Sense Foes cost double. And as the general rule always allows to only cast a spell on part of the area you paid for, you would always be allowed to cast a Watchdog small enough for just one person to stand within, so it is no disadvantage that Watchdog hasn't got a "one person"-variant.

Well, there is one thing: Watchdog takes 10 seconds to cast. But on the other hand, it gives you 10 hours duration, compared to "just once".

[dds_ks]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Sure, but monsters in hack-n-slash dungeon fantasy are always hostile.

So if I get you right, your point is: "There isn't such a thing as a 'absolute' (= always valid) spell description, but it depends on the setting."

This would mean that ... sorry for technobubbling... the caster uploads his enemy list and prejudices to instruct the spell...
... but on the other hand, if there is an unidentified spy as NPC, he wouldn't appear on this list. So to work properly, the spell has to double-check with anybody entering.

Or in other words, the spell needs telepathic contact to the entering creature, asking: "How would you react if you knew the mage was here?"... which should trigger a Mind Shield advantage's warning function (B 70).

Well, in Dungeon Fantasy, we don't ask how things work. Important is the fact that they work. But how about other settings?
Especially a "Super Mage Setting"?
We have several mages with access to more than 100 spells each and Magery up to 20 and IQ up to 17, resulting in skill 35+ with all spells, which makes casting very cheap (-5 FP). So in a magic contest it is more important to outwit your enemy but burn him by brute force... and this means you need to find the loopholes, find creative combinations of spells and so on.

For example:
Situation: A mage feared that he would be tracked by a stationary enemy (who "owns" a whole city of more than 100 necromancers and up to 3.000 living inhabitants, not counting all the undead. On the other hand, it would be very welcome if the enemy would divide his forces between a strong "following group" and a smaller and weaker "garrison" at the city.
But this only works if the following group follows the wrong track.
Idea: First cast a Scryfool with himself as decoy. Then cast Lend Spell to any fast-moving bird, maybe one flying to the southern hemisphere for winter. And last hiding his own aura by a Scryguard.
Hoped result: Seeker and Trace now find the bird.
... which will not work, as Seeker and Trace don't find the aura of somebody, but somebody himself. But the idea was creative anyway.

But back to our problem: it is normal in our campaign that the PCs move around and have to deal with NPC in their strongholds, with highly magic defenses to overcome.



--
You don't have to be crazy, if you play with us...
... but it helps.
And afterwards you will be anyway.

[Pagan]

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha

Right, if the orcs have no hostile intent when they cross the border of the spell it doesn't get triggered, the spell can't divine that once they realize that their kin's murderers are inside they'll become hostile.

I would agree right up till they realize their kin's murderers are there and they get hostile. The spell doesn't only detect hostile intent at its borders. It covers the entire area so when hostile intent is generated within its area of effect it goes off. What it doesn't do is choose whose hostile intent, enemy or companion.

Orcs crossing into the area suddenly see your friends and decide to kill them....alarm goes off.

Friend resting within area of effect sees a figure moving in the darkness and decides to shoot it with his bow.....alarm goes off.

The only triggers are being within the area of effect and having hostile intent.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Pagan

I would agree right up till they realize their kin's murderers are there and they get hostile. The spell doesn't only detect hostile intent at its borders. It covers the entire area so when hostile intent is generated within its area of effect it goes off. What it doesn't do is choose whose hostile intent, enemy or companion.

Orcs crossing into the area suddenly see your friends and decide to kill them....alarm goes off.

Friend resting within area of effect sees a figure moving in the darkness and decides to shoot it with his bow.....alarm goes off.

The only triggers are being within the area of effect and having hostile intent.

Right, that's better than what I said.

[Ze'Manel Cunha]

Originally Posted by Pagan

I would agree right up till they realize their kin's murderers are there and they get hostile. The spell doesn't only detect hostile intent at its borders. It covers the entire area so when hostile intent is generated within its area of effect it goes off. What it doesn't do is choose whose hostile intent, enemy or companion.

Orcs crossing into the area suddenly see your friends and decide to kill them....alarm goes off.

Friend resting within area of effect sees a figure moving in the darkness and decides to shoot it with his bow.....alarm goes off.

The only triggers are being within the area of effect and having hostile intent.

Oh absolutely, but I got the impression the caster had either saved some energy by creating the Watchdog as an empty hoop, getting a larger border but not covering the entire area, or that the area had turns and twists so that by the time the orcs were able to see the characters they were right on top of them when they make their realization.

[dds_ks]

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha

Oh absolutely, but I got the impression the caster had either saved some energy by creating the Watchdog as an empty hoop, getting a larger border but not covering the entire area, or that the area had turns and twists so that by the time the orcs were able to see the characters they were right on top of them when they make their realization.

Well, my example... wasn't a real situation... so for the sake of argumentation, you may change the setting any way you like/need.

What I thought of initially was a door to a small room. Just outside the door there would be a 1 yard-area Watchdog which anybody attempting to touch the door handle would have to step in (or reach out through it).
And to make the situation clear for argumentation, I thought about the two orcs spotting the Hands after completely crossing this section.

Of course, Abracadabra, the mysterious mage, wasn't too bright in this example.