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Old 09-16-2022, 08:16 AM   #11
Fred Brackin
 
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Default Re: Very High Mana, Critical Successes, Maintenance, and Missile Enlargement

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Originally Posted by maximara View Post
Wild Mana works similar to Classic Basic Set's Very High Mana with an additional downside: "any success on a spellcasting roll counts as a critical success, and costs 0 FP, while any failure is treated as a critical failure, with the spellís full normal energy cost."

On a side note Celtic Myth had its own revision of Wild Mana 'cast any spell in 1 second using only 1 energy. "All spell successes are critical successes, and all failures are critical failures."'
IIRC Celth Myth was the source of Wild Mana.
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Old 09-17-2022, 12:51 AM   #12
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Default Re: Very High Mana, Critical Successes, Maintenance, and Missile Enlargement

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
IIRC Celth Myth was the source of Wild Mana.
If you mean the term I agree but like Ritual Magic there are key differences between Classic (3e) and 4e enough they are nearly in the 'in name only' category.

"Spirit magic is not mana-dependent, since it uses spiritual forces that exist wherever human souls can." - GURPS Voodoo This changed when GURPS Spirits was written.
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Old 09-17-2022, 07:25 AM   #13
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Default Re: Very High Mana, Critical Successes, Maintenance, and Missile Enlargement

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If you mean the term I agree .
That is what I meant. It affected your description of Celtic Myth having a "revision" of Wild Mana. CM didn't alter anything that came befoe with that name.
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Old 09-17-2022, 04:13 PM   #14
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Default Re: Very High Mana, Critical Successes, Maintenance, and Missile Enlargement

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
That is what I meant. It affected your description of Celtic Myth having a "revision" of Wild Mana. CM didn't alter anything that came befoe with that name.
Had a minors brain fart and meant "version" (have no idea why it became "revision".

Celtic Myth's Wild Mana is an interesting variant as you cast spells fast and cheap. 4e's Wild Mana doesn't speed up spell casting on its own.
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Old 09-21-2022, 06:17 AM   #15
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Default Re: Very High Mana, Critical Successes, Maintenance, and Missile Enlargement

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Originally Posted by maximara View Post
Had a minors brain fart and meant "version" (have no idea why it became "revision".
To be fair, the two words are very similar. Just a momentary bit of dyslexia (which I think we all experience from time to time) turns "version" into "revsion," and you just need to toss an "i" near the middle of the latter (in fact, if you're posting using something with some type of autocorrect, I'm pretty certain it would do so on its own) to turn it into "revision."

We now return you to your regularly scheduled discussion on mana.
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Old 09-22-2022, 03:15 PM   #16
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Default Re: Very High Mana, Critical Successes, Maintenance, and Missile Enlargement

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Originally Posted by RGTraynor View Post
to prevent: idjits (or, well, Big Bads) from crowing "I cast a Create Fire spell big enough to torch a subcontinent! Yeah!"
Anyone can do that if they roll a critical success.
The outcome of the roll determines the final amount of energy spent, which is 0 if the success was critical and 1 if it's a normal failure, so you're only out the full cost if it's a normal success or a critical failure (cept info spells)

Any energy you can't spend from FP can come from Burning HP
Burning HP never kills you - if it takes you to a negative multiple, you make the HT roll and if the HT fails (you would die) it creates a retroactive "you do not spend the HP" outcome so you don't end up dead.

Even without all this we also have situations like Wild Mana where normal successes are crit successes which also creates this issue.

Maybe we should have something akin to Magery and Effect on AE spells?
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Old 09-23-2022, 09:45 AM   #17
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Default Re: Very High Mana, Critical Successes, Maintenance, and Missile Enlargement

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Anyone can do that if they roll a critical success.
The outcome of the roll determines the final amount of energy spent, which is 0 if the success was critical and 1 if it's a normal failure, so you're only out the full cost if it's a normal success or a critical failure (cept info spells)

Any energy you can't spend from FP can come from Burning HP
Burning HP never kills you - if it takes you to a negative multiple, you make the HT roll and if the HT fails (you would die) it creates a retroactive "you do not spend the HP" outcome so you don't end up dead.

Even without all this we also have situations like Wild Mana where normal successes are crit successes which also creates this issue.

Maybe we should have something akin to Magery and Effect on AE spells?
Wouldn't the -Enormous casting penalty for burning millions of HP to torch a continent guarantee a critical failure? Or is "you're at -1 per HP spent" only a DFRPG rule?
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Old 09-23-2022, 10:15 AM   #18
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Default Re: Very High Mana, Critical Successes, Maintenance, and Missile Enlargement

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Wouldn't the -Enormous casting penalty for burning millions of HP to torch a continent guarantee a critical failure? Or is "you're at -1 per HP spent" only a DFRPG rule?
No, that's also a rule in the standard magic system. Also, were I the GM I'd ignore the rule that critical failures shouldn't kill the caster outright and rule that in the event of a critical failure you take the hit point damage you chose, regardless of death checks, etc.
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Old 09-23-2022, 11:02 AM   #19
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Default Re: Very High Mana, Critical Successes, Maintenance, and Missile Enlargement

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No, that's also a rule in the standard magic system. Also, were I the GM I'd ignore the rule that critical failures shouldn't kill the caster outright and rule that in the event of a critical failure you take the hit point damage you chose, regardless of death checks, etc.
Simpler than that...you can't spend HP THAT YOU DO NOT HAVE!

If I felt the need to put the GM hat on again I would likely (at most) let a caster burn HP to a max of x1 -HP, no more.
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Old 09-23-2022, 04:30 PM   #20
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Default Re: Very High Mana, Critical Successes, Maintenance, and Missile Enlargement

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It was also brought up that "older editions" made spellcasting "free in VHM!" By "older editions" they mean exactly one older edition, GURPS Fantasy (1st edition). GURPS Magic has never made spellcasting entirely free in a VHM, it's always been "spend energy/cast the spell and get the FP back next turn". (just putting that argument to rest in advance)
It seems that Basic Set Third Edition, First Printing had "Anyone can cast spell, if he knows them. Mages can do so at no energy cost!" as well as the errata correct it with "In a very-high-mana area, the energy a mage used is renewed every second, but there is an energy cost; a mage cannot cast a spell for which he does not have energy."

All subsequent printings of the Basic Set Third Edition had the correct definition for Very High Mana. In 4e this old version of Very High Mana is Wild Mana

Classic: Celtic Myth had its own version of Wild mana which allowed one to "cast any spell in only one second, and using only 1 energy point, whatever the normal point cost for that spell." (pg 80)
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