Talents for MH:RPM Paths okay?

[Sunrunners_Fire]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

The energy reserve is almost useless without ritual adept to use it instantly. That just leaves the skill ceiling. With modifiers from books, etc. 12 isn't that bad of a level.
So in a low fantasy setting, that ends up making magery not worth much, which seems backwards to me.

Either way, thanks everyone for your views.

Just for clarification:

RPM Magery is a construct of
{
Unusual Background (+1 Magery Cap on Path Skill) 1 [1]
Energy Reserve (Magical) 3 [9]
}
... for RPM Magery [10 per Level].

It isn't the standard spell system magery (which is a 5-point detect (that pulls double-duty as an unusual background as well!) and a 10-point power talent). If you are going to completely change the role magery has in your setting's magic system, you may wish to make sure that its' not being turned into something that gives more bang-for-the-buck than it should.

[Flyndaran]

Ok, I think I get it now.
Also, I just now noticed that even without ritual adept, if you've got the energy, you can cast immediately. So magery is very useful in low point/fantasy settings.
I thought I might be missing something.

[Lamech]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

Ok, I think I get it now.
Also, I just now noticed that even without ritual adept, if you've got the energy, you can cast immediately. So magery is very useful in low point/fantasy settings.
I thought I might be missing something.

However you do have the non-consecrated area penalty. Although IMO as long as you have a decent level of skill magery is still a good deal. 3 extra energy you can easily gather with less crit fail chance (or a mild one at worst) effectivly adds +3 to the energy of your spells. That is three more CP of altered traits for a lesser effect or one more for a greater effect. For the whole party. And since there are so many effects... its still decent, maybe not as good as adding magery+IQ, but still good.

Oh and on the talent: I suppose you could do it. Ten skills = 10 per level of talent. It would be comparatively priced to IQ sans will/per. I would be careful though.

[PK]

For Talent, Peter is right; you don't have to allow it, but then you might have to deal with munchkins trying to raise IQ! as high as possible. One compromise, and the one that RPM will suggest, is to allow a 15-point Talent that covers all of the Path skills, Thaumatology, and most other direct occult skills (Symbol Drawing, Alchemy, etc.). It's harder to abuse a 15-point Talent than it is a 10-point one, but it's still cheaper than just raising IQ.

Originally Posted by Sunrunners_Fire

Just for clarification:

RPM Magery is a construct of
{
Unusual Background (+1 Magery Cap on Path Skill) 1 [1]
Energy Reserve (Magical) 3 [9]
}
... for RPM Magery [10 per Level].

This is accurate, though in the RPM book I explained it as a mix of three benefits:

Magery +1 = Mana Reserve +3 && Path Cap +1 && Conditional Cap +1

(The limit on how many conditional spells you can have active is arguably as important as your Path skill cap. I rarely see an RPM caster who doesn't have a bunch of charms and "slotted spells" prepped for emergency, 1-second use.)

And then Magery 0 can be thought of as buying off the inherent -5 to cast spells without Magery. And yes, RPM will feature the optional rule of buying off that penalty -1 at at a time (for 1 point at a time), much like Path/Book offers.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

And then Magery 0 can be thought of as buying off the inherent -5 to cast spells without Magery. And yes, RPM will feature the optional rule of buying off that penalty -1 at at a time (for 1 point at a time), much like Path/Book offers.

I am so looking forward to that book.

[Sunrunners_Fire]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

*snip*

Corrections noted. I'll remember for the next time it comes up.

[Kuroshima]

Originally Posted by Refplace

I am so looking forward to that book.

You are not alone at that...

[Joe]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

One compromise, and the one that RPM will suggest, is to allow a 15-point Talent that covers all of the Path skills, Thaumatology, and most other direct occult skills (Symbol Drawing, Alchemy, etc.). It's harder to abuse a 15-point Talent than it is a 10-point one, but it's still cheaper than just raising IQ.

The answer to this question is probably so obvious I can't see it, but I'll ask anyway:

Wouldn't the munchkin we're imagining still ignore the 15pt talent, preferring instead to raise IQ for 10pts/lvl by selling back Will and Per?

Or are we imagining that the munchkin will prefer the 15pt talent to the 10pt IQ because selling back Will and Per will count against his/her disad limit?

[PK]

Originally Posted by Westerhaven

The answer to this question is probably so obvious I can't see it, but I'll ask anyway:

Wouldn't the munchkin we're imagining still ignore the 15pt talent, preferring instead to raise IQ for 10pts/lvl by selling back Will and Per?

Or are we imagining that the munchkin will prefer the 15pt talent to the 10pt IQ because selling back Will and Per will count against his/her disad limit?

The munchkin may. But the munchkin can't lower Will or Per below IQ-4, and it all counts against the disadvantage limit, so the munchkin may still want other options.

More to the point, I'm assuming that most players aren't munchkins, and that if they want a Talent that will help them become better casters, it's not because they want to achieve an unfair advantage. So it's my goal to come up with balanced options, then suggest those options as the "right" way to do it. I'm confident that most players will look at the Ritual Magician Talent in RPM and be delighted at what a good deal it is. (And it is, because it includes several additional, useful skills for a caster.)

And for those that reject that because all they care about is min-maxing -- "Screw those other useful skills -- I just want magical power!" -- well, if the GM is okay with them raising IQ! through the roof, then rock on. It's not my place to stop them! As long as everyone's having fun, good enough for me.

[Joe]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

But the munchkin can't lower Will or Per below IQ-4,

Ah yup, forgot about that. That makes a significant difference in high point-value campaigns like MH.

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

More to the point, I'm assuming that most players aren't munchkins, and that if they want a Talent that will help them become better casters, it's not because they want to achieve an unfair advantage. So it's my goal to come up with balanced options, then suggest those options as the "right" way to do it.

True 'dat. It does make me wonder, though: is raising IQ without Will and Per an 'unfair advantage' / 'unbalanced option'?

It would seem to me that the gurps rules have IQ effectively priced at 10pts (though with the extra limitations on selling back secondary characteristics) for a fairly good reason - it's the basis of many skills, therefore it's appropriate that it's effectively more expensive (again, due to the limitations on reducing secondary characteristics) than ST and HT; but since it's probably fair to say that the average campaign focuses on physical rather than mental action at key moments, it's appropriate for IQ to be cheaper than DX. Certainly true in MH, methinks.

So I wonder whether it's really right to think of it as an unfair /unbalanced option.

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

As long as everyone's having fun, good enough for me.

Truer words were never said.