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Old 04-15-2021, 05:34 PM   #11
Ulzgoroth
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Default Re: Definitive Stance on 1/2D and Area/Cone Attacks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
The OP seemed to want distant cones, just as you can have distant circles for your area of effect. Imagine something like canister / beehive rounds. Or just a thrown claymore mine (should someone be so silly or desperate). The cone would originate from the trigger point, not the launch point.

If launch point and expansion trigger point must occur together, then the distinction of course disappears. Those cones will originate from the attacker. But that's also just a special case. A more general model would be occasionally useful.
I don't agree with that assessment of the OP, but at any rate, if you're making 'remote cones' they need additional stats. Range and 1/2D stats (and cone width) are used and needed to define the geometry of the cone itself. You'd need at least one separate range stat to define how far you can displace the cone origin.
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Old 04-15-2021, 09:07 PM   #12
Celjabba
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Luxembourg
Default Re: Definitive Stance on 1/2D and Area/Cone Attacks

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Originally Posted by MakDemonik View Post
This is confusing design decision though -- the general notion of "If there is no 1/2D stat that means it is full damage at max range." Meanwhile we also have a rule stating that "If any statistics for Innate Attacks are not present default to Max 100, 1/2D 10." Both are "If not specified use this number" and both contradict themselves.
One "unconfusing" explanation is that special attacks for non-playable monsters aren't necessarily written following the innate attack building rules.
They can, and in fact often do, just describe the attack effect.

Ence the rule saying : if you don't see an 1/2D stat on a ranged attack on a creature stat block, don't assume one.

But if you see something clearly written as an innate attack, then 1/2D is relevant.
Note the Krommquote "cones based on Innate Attack still have Acc 3 and Range 10/100". (emphasis mine)

Three examples from various books :

Breath (16): Can breathe a 5-yard-wide x 20-yard-long cone of
magic breath once per day.


No 1/2D stat : no damage reduction up to max range 20

But

Crushing Attack 6d (Cone, 20 yards wide at 100 yards, +250%; Costs
Fatigue, 2 FP, -10%; Double Knockback, +20%; No Wounding,
-50%; Takes Extra Time, 2-second Ready, -20%; Takes Recharge,
5 seconds, -10%; Underwater, +20%) [90].


Build as an Innate attack : default to Max range 100, 1/2D 10

compared to

Crushing Attack 3d+1 (Cone, 1 yard,
+60%; Costs Fatigue, 1 FP, -5%; Double Knockback, +20%;
Increased 1/2D x10, +15%; No Blunt Trauma, -10%; No
Wounding, -50%; Reduced Range 1/5, -20%) [19]


Build as an Innate attack, but include reduced range and Increased 1/2D : full effect up to max range 20

Those last 2 are DF5 and DF9 summoned allies and familiars : here, cp cost matters so the build are detailed.

Last edited by Celjabba; 04-15-2021 at 11:14 PM.
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Old 04-16-2021, 02:41 PM   #13
Anaraxes
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Default Re: Definitive Stance on 1/2D and Area/Cone Attacks

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Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
You'd need at least one separate range stat to define how far you can displace the cone origin.
I agree it would be good to have more knobs so as to make area of effect completely separate from range.
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Old 04-16-2021, 05:02 PM   #14
Ulzgoroth
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Default Re: Definitive Stance on 1/2D and Area/Cone Attacks

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Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
I agree it would be good to have more knobs so as to make area of effect completely separate from range.
It would be really weird to make the length of the cone and the displacement range fixed together.
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