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Old 04-18-2015, 11:02 AM   #11
johndallman
 
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Default Re: [Basic] Skill of the week: Esoteric Medicine

Quote:
Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
Players commonly decrease Per for their IQ-oriented characters.
They do? This hasn't been at all common in my groups.
Quote:
Making Diagnosis Per-based while keeping Physician IQ-based might do well to emphasise the importance of both.
I think asking for Per-based Diagnosis is quite often reasonable, if GM and player have a similar understanding of medicine. Large imbalances in that understanding can easily cause confusion.
Quote:
(Now, making DX important for Surgery without either nerfing surgeons nor making IQ meh for surgeons - that's trickier.)
Yeah, that's one's hard. The nearest thing to a solution I have is lifted from the 3e Guns rules. Give +1 to surgery rolls for DX11 or +2 for DX 12, for actual practical surgery. High Manual Dexterity applies.
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Old 04-18-2015, 11:34 AM   #12
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Default Re: [Basic] Skill of the week: Esoteric Medicine

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Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
Yeah, that's one's hard. The nearest thing to a solution I have is lifted from the 3e Guns rules. Give +1 to surgery rolls for DX11 or +2 for DX 12, for actual practical surgery. High Manual Dexterity applies.
Or just do what I do. "High Manual Dexterity adds to Surgery, even though the latter is an IQ-based skill."
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Old 04-18-2015, 12:25 PM   #13
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Default Re: [Basic] Skill of the week: Esoteric Medicine

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Originally Posted by Kenneth Latrans View Post
Or just do what I do. "High Manual Dexterity adds to Surgery, even though the latter is an IQ-based skill."
There are some worms climbing out of the can after this one:

If you boost Surgery by HMD but not normal DX, then it makes complete DX somehow worse than hands-only DX for surgical purposes.
If you boost Surgery by both HMD and (DX minus 10), then you're effectively making DX as good as IQ for Surgery in all aspects, which doesn't seem to be what people are striving to achieve by the changes.
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Old 04-18-2015, 01:25 PM   #14
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Default Re: [Basic] Skill of the week: Esoteric Medicine

In one campaign I allowed people to use Esoteric Medicine in place of Ritual Magic for the Path of Health only.

I thought about making it IQ/VH as per the recommendation for alternate base skills, but decided that it was balanced by being one path only.
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Old 11-10-2015, 05:13 PM   #15
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Default Re: [Basic] Skill of the week: Esoteric Medicine

Over in the thread for Housekeeping:
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Originally Posted by malloyd View Post
Esoteric Medicine (Granny Remedies) would make a pretty interesting companion skill for Housekeeping, and listing it as an example would help clarify what Esoteric Medicine is supposed to be about too.
This is a style of Esoteric Medicine that is mostly psychology and placebo effect, but that doesn't make it useless.
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Old 11-10-2015, 07:55 PM   #16
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Default Re: [Basic] Skill of the week: Esoteric Medicine

In my game, Esoteric Medicine prevents critical failures with healing spells, just like Physician. That's not what Magic says, but large parts of Magic need a lot of editing to bring them up to 4E.

We rarely actually roll against the skill, because magical healing is so effective. But it's handy for flavor.
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Old 11-10-2015, 08:12 PM   #17
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Default Re: [Basic] Skill of the week: Esoteric Medicine

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Originally Posted by dripton View Post
In my game, Esoteric Medicine prevents critical failures with healing spells, just like Physician. That's not what Magic says, but large parts of Magic need a lot of editing to bring them up to 4E.

We rarely actually roll against the skill, because magical healing is so effective. But it's handy for flavor.
This being made an explicit option would be very helpful for DF, because as it stands I want to give clerics Physician-15 instead of Esoteric Medicine(Holy)-15.
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Old 11-11-2015, 12:34 AM   #18
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Default Re: [Basic] Skill of the week: Esoteric Medicine

Regarding Physician in GURPS Dungeon Fantasy: "At TL4 and below, this skill does not exist in most game worlds. Instead, use Esoteric Medicine (p. 192), Pharmacy (Herbal) (above), or both." You will note that Physician is not listed in Suitable Skills (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 1: Adventurers, pp. 16-18) and does not appear on any Dungeon Fantasy template . . . That's because it's fully replaced by Esoteric Medicine for all purposes, including those in GURPS Magic.
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Old 11-11-2015, 12:52 AM   #19
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Default Re: [Basic] Skill of the week: Esoteric Medicine

In my fantasy campaigns, I've always allowed Esoteric Medicine work at least as well as First Aid on mundane injuries, and permitted different specialties to work in succession to heal a few HP apiece (1d-4 to 1d-2, depending on the setting). If, say, an Ayurvedic healer and a Taoist healer each treat you for 30 minutes, you can get twice as many HP back. That seems fair and balanced for a Hard skill (relative to Easy for First Aid) and extra time.

I also allow Esoteric Medicine to meet certain curses and afflictions in a Quick Contest, with victory lifting the baneful effect. This is entirely dependent on matching the right specialty to the ailment. Having a few versions available is a good idea.

Consequently, Esoteric Medicine is moderately popular when I run fantasy campaigns. It's much more popular in "secret history" campaigns where no one has working magic but certain mysterious disciplines (Alchemy, Esoteric Medicine, Herb Lore, etc.) actually work. There, it's a life-saver to have a few healers from different traditions work on your wounds.
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Old 11-11-2015, 01:28 AM   #20
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Default Re: [Basic] Skill of the week: Esoteric Medicine

Quote:
Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
Players commonly decrease Per for their IQ-oriented characters. Making Diagnosis Per-based while keeping Physician IQ-based might do well to emphasise the importance of both. (Now, making DX important for Surgery without either nerfing surgeons nor making IQ meh for surgeons - that's trickier.)
I'm thinking of a houserule that will work something along the lines like that. Surgeries have associted "fidgetiness"/required DX values to themselves. Easiest ones - crude batllefied amputation etc. might have have required DX of 10 or even lower. Reattaching blood vessels or nerves etc. MIgh have DX value of 20 or more.
Each point your DX is lower thatn the associated DX value penalizes you the same amount.
High manual dexterity of course helps, so can appropriate tools, (micromanipulators etc.),
It'll mean that high dex and high manual dexterity is still a good thing for surgeons to have - and give good mechanicfor all kinds of storytelling. A good surgeon can fail even easy work because of stress, hangover, post-combat shakes etc. if it penalizes surgeons DX. (Normally a DX 12 would not take any extra penalties to this not so fidgety operation (DX req 10), but he got the shakes (-4 DX so effective DX 8), so he takes an extra -2)
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