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Old 10-20-2022, 01:46 PM   #11
sjmdw45
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Default Re: Targeting the Eyes: rules questions

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Originally Posted by DouglasCole View Post
"Do your homework and know your monsters" is a legit ask, though. (Meaning it's fine to say "if you miss the eye DR because you don't look at the monster trait list, it's not on the author/writer/publisher. RTFM, etc.)
I do often wish that monster entries were formatted by function instead of purely alphabetically. A trait list such as
Traits: 360° Vision; Dark Vision; Discriminatory Taste; Doesn’t Breathe; Doesn’t Sleep; Hard to Kill 3; Hard to Subdue 3; High Pain Threshold; Homogeneous; Immunity to Disease; Immunity to Mind Control; Immunity to Poison; Indomitable; Injury Reduction 2; Invertebrate; Magic Resistance 5; No Blood; No Eyes; No Fine Manipulators; No Head; No Neck; Sadism (12); Slithers; Unfazeable; Wild Animal.
would be easier for me to consume if it grouped like things with like, for example:
Senses: 360° Vision; Dark Vision; Discriminatory Taste;

Psychology: Indomitable; Sadism (12); Wild Animal;

Toughness: Homogeneous; High Pain Threshold; Hard to Kill 3; Hard to Subdue 3; Immunity to Disease; Immunity to Mind Control; Immunity to Poison; Injury Reduction 2; Magic Resistance 5; No Head; No Neck; No Blood; No Eyes; Unfazeable;

Physiology: Doesn’t Breathe; Doesn’t Sleep; Invertebrate; No Fine Manipulators; Slithers;
It's not a big deal because I can always rewrite it this way in my own notes, but if I were publishing my own monsters the above format is probably how I would do it. (Also, I would consolidate all of the No XYZ traits into No Organs, or in some cases No Organs Except Eyes. Incidentally the rules for Homogenous are inconsistent: Exploits page 55 says to "Ignore all knockdown and wounding modifiers for hit location", but the table on the back of Exploits says to give additional wounding for vs. face/neck for cutting/crushing/corrosion, even against homogenous targets.)

Last edited by sjmdw45; 10-22-2022 at 07:11 AM.
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Old 10-20-2022, 02:05 PM   #12
sjmdw45
 
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Default Re: Targeting the Eyes: rules questions

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Originally Posted by DouglasCole View Post
And all was right with the world again, apparently. :-) Scouts the world over can retract shrieks of terror and party on again.
We can hope that "DR does not apply to eyes except where specifically noted" eventually gets added to a future printing of DF Exploits' hit location rules.

Anyone have any thoughts to offer on question #2 from OP, Sunbolt's apparent ability to target eyes despite being neither impaling nor piercing? Would you let a cleric get x4 damage and ignore DR with Sunbolt by targeting monster eyes?

(Based on GURPS: Martial Arts pages 71-72 I'm inclined towards "Sun Bolt can target the eyes for blinding purposes but doesn't get the x4 damage or enhanced knockdown", on the basis that only things long enough to reach the brain get the enhanced damage/knockdown, whereas Sun Bolt just burns your eyes out.)

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Old 10-20-2022, 06:57 PM   #13
Balor Patch
 
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Default Re: Targeting the Eyes: rules questions

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Originally Posted by sjmdw45 View Post
We can hope that "DR does not apply to eyes except where specifically noted" eventually gets added to a future printing of DF Exploits' hit location rules.

Anyone have any thoughts to offer on question #2 from OP, Sunbolt's apparent ability to target eyes despite being neither impaling nor piercing? Would you let a cleric get x4 damage and ignore DR with Sunbolt by targeting monster eyes?

(Based on GURPS: Martial Arts pages 71-72 I'm inclined towards "Sun Bolt can target the eyes for blinding purposes but doesn't get the x4 damage or enhanced knockdown", on the basis that only things long enough to reach the brain get the enhanced damage/knockdown, whereas Sun Bolt just burns your eyes out.)
In the beginning Sunbolt was Impaling. Magic 4th Edition changed it to tight beam burning, which can still target the eyes. DFRPG doesn't have the concept of "tight beam" and regular burning can't target the eyes. So just move it back to Impaling if you think that makes more sense.
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Old 10-20-2022, 08:14 PM   #14
sjmdw45
 
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Default Re: Targeting the Eyes: rules questions

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Originally Posted by Balor Patch View Post
In the beginning Sunbolt was Impaling. Magic 4th Edition changed it to tight beam burning, which can still target the eyes. DFRPG doesn't have the concept of "tight beam" and regular burning can't target the eyes. So just move it back to Impaling if you think that makes more sense.
Oh. Thanks for that context. In that case it makes sense to just treat it as burning that is allowed to target the eyes (4x damage) and vitals (2x damage).

Last edited by sjmdw45; 10-24-2022 at 03:29 PM.
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Old 10-30-2022, 08:18 PM   #15
InexplicableVic
 
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Default Re: Targeting the Eyes: rules questions

Re: Sunbolt and blinding. The way I read it, it’s not doing any *actual* damage to the eyes or the brain behind. The effect of getting hit in your face with a bolt of sunlight is blinding. Until you can recover from that crippling injury, you’re temporarily blinded. If you fail the HT roll, you could be permanently blinded. But there’s no actual HP injury other than the injury to the face.
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Old 10-30-2022, 08:21 PM   #16
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Default Re: Targeting the Eyes: rules questions

Also, note how you have to roll *even if* there is no penetrating injury. It’s like you were in a cave for years in the darkness and then someone flashed a super bright light right in front of your face. Not good for seeing things for at least a few seconds.
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Old 10-30-2022, 08:59 PM   #17
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Default Re: Targeting the Eyes: rules questions

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Originally Posted by InexplicableVic View Post
Re: Sunbolt and blinding. The way I read it, it’s not doing any *actual* damage to the eyes or the brain behind. The effect of getting hit in your face with a bolt of sunlight is blinding. Until you can recover from that crippling injury, you’re temporarily blinded. If you fail the HT roll, you could be permanently blinded. But there’s no actual HP injury other than the injury to the face.
Sure, for face hits. But it also has separate rules for eye hits even though it's not allowed to target the eyes, and that's interesting. And apparently it's a GURPSism that crept into DFRPG.
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Old 11-02-2022, 06:03 PM   #18
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Default Re: Targeting the Eyes: rules questions

Maybe I misread... are you guys playing that Sunbolt does actual HP damage to everything *except* eyes but if it hits the eyes rather than damage them (inflict HP) it just causes a blindness effect?
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Old 11-05-2022, 12:40 PM   #19
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Default Re: Targeting the Eyes: rules questions

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Originally Posted by sjmdw45 View Post
Sure, for face hits. But it also has separate rules for eye hits even though it's not allowed to target the eyes, and that's interesting. And apparently it's a GURPSism that crept into DFRPG.
Unless they're wearing a helmet with face guard covering the eyes, you can target the eye. You may not be able to target the brain. For that you'll need impaling. A hit to the faces is potentially blinding to the eye regardless due to the bright flash of light.
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Old 11-06-2022, 09:07 PM   #20
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Default Re: Targeting the Eyes: rules questions

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Maybe I misread... are you guys playing that Sunbolt does actual HP damage to everything *except* eyes but if it hits the eyes rather than damage them (inflict HP) it just causes a blindness effect?
I’m pretty sure it does damage as well as potentially blinding if it hits the eyes. The spell description specifically says that the HT roll to avoid blinding if it hits the eyes is penalized by the amount of injury done. The point is it can cause blinding even if it doesn’t penetrate armor and do injury, if it hits the eyes or the face.

As to whether it does x4 injury on a hit to the eyes, I’d rule that it does in DFRPG RAW, even without looking at the GURPS rules for tight beam burning. The general rule is only impaling and piercing can target the eyes, but the spell description specifically discusses hits to the eye, and specific overrules general. The description of the eye hit location in Exploits says to treat hits to the eye as skull hits without the extra 2 DR. It seems to me that should apply to anything that can hit the eye.
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