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Old 08-10-2018, 12:06 PM   #11
Chris Rice
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: London Uk, but originally from Scotland
Default Re: Non-combat characters

Quote:
Originally Posted by SwordlordRoy View Post
Considering the game is based heavily on two arena micro games, this may be an odd subject, but it's one I will doubtless have to deal with...

To explain, one of the players in my group has been on a huge kick of making characters who are more or less like him in real life, a small-business owner. Doesn't matter the system (have you ever tried looking through most of the RIFTS catalog to try and find a merchant class? We just did!), he always wants to stand as far back as possible and open up a shop in the nearest town.

Any recommendations on how to handle something like this in TFT?
Well it depends on what the other players want to do. If they like more Town-based adventures then that's fine; the difficulty comes if they want to go dungeon delving and he wants to stay home minding shop. In such a case he could be an Alchemist or Wizard who makes and sells magic items. The ingredients for his products are hard to come by so the other players go on adventures to obtain them? Something like that.
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Old 08-10-2018, 02:23 PM   #12
tbeard1999
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Tyler, Texas
Default Re: Non-combat characters

Have an orc shoot him with a crossbow.

Or rename the game "Accountants and Actuaries" and look to the April 1981 issue of The Dragon for inspiration.

Seriously, let him come up with a simple business plan and roll against IQ for weekly profit. Rig it so that he averages about what he would at a job.

I once had a character who wanted to become the richest man in the world. The GM and I had an understanding that I couldn't abuse this if he let me pursue it in-game. As I got richer, I always complained about "depreciation and amortization" eating up my cash and limiting my ability to buy stuff.
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Old 08-10-2018, 03:15 PM   #13
tbeard1999
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Tyler, Texas
Default Re: Non-combat characters

In simplest terms, the character can have three types of businesses:

1. Manufacturing - i.e., make stuff and sell. Alchemist, blacksmith or armorer, for instance. Requires capital to be invested for equipment to make the stuff, place to make the stuff and raw materials to make the stuff out of. More money required to startup; easier to expand since you can leverage talents of employees easier.

2. Service. Performing a service of some kind. Physicker, lawyer, bard performing at a party, etc. Far less capital to start up but harder to leverage the talents of others. In some cases (bard) virtually no capital to start. In others (transportation company), a lot of capital.

3. Retail. Buy stuff and re-sell it. Merchant, proprietor of Wizard's shop.

Besides running it properly, and getting customers, the key to growing a business (at least in game terms) is reinvesting profits. The more that's reinvested, the greater subsequent profits will generally be. (That's why my richest man in the world character couldn't spend but a tiny fraction of his great wealth - it was tied up in his businesses).

In my opinion, most competent people can create a successful business that will make them a modest income - more or less what they could make if they worked at a normal job. To succeed beyond that, I think a business owner needs luck, capital and competent management/execution. Any two are probably enough to do fairly well, but all three are needed to have a good chance of significant success, unless you have an astronomical amount of luck or capital.
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Old 08-10-2018, 04:32 PM   #14
The Wyzard
 
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Default Re: Non-combat characters

If you're comfortable letting people run more than one figure at a time, the solution presents itself. A player might choose to have one of their figures be a noncombatant, and still have another to participate in melee while their lawyer or merchant figure cowers in the back.
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Old 08-12-2018, 04:10 PM   #15
CardDiceian
 
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Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Berkshire - UK
Default Re: Non-combat characters

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Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
It doesn't seem all that odd to me, especially amongst my more experienced role-players. Many wizards already tend to try to avoid direct enemy contact, and I've seen many PCs (even ones who were also fighters) want to get into non-combat and even mostly-non-adventure pursuits, and/or some mix of both.
.
I have to confess, I've never had experience of RPG's other than Melee / Fantasy Trip, and that was a long time ago - only just returning to it now, so I didn't mean to sound dismissive or flippant.

I'm glad this thread has come up though - Because I think I now have a slightly better understanding of the Contest ideas thanks to Zot's document. - (I've printed that out to have a proper read through and play with.)
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Old 08-13-2018, 12:10 AM   #16
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: Non-combat characters

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Originally Posted by CardDiceian View Post
I have to confess, I've never had experience of RPG's other than Melee / Fantasy Trip, and that was a long time ago - only just returning to it now, so I didn't mean to sound dismissive or flippant.

I'm glad this thread has come up though - Because I think I now have a slightly better understanding of the Contest ideas thanks to Zot's document. - (I've printed that out to have a proper read through and play with.)
I just added this section to help clarify:

When to Use Contests and Opposed Rolls

Besides actual contests in the story, the most appropriate time to use opposed rolls, contests, or tasks, is when the characters want to produce a different outcome than they currently have without using violence, like bargaining for a better price, trying to get past a bureaucrat, trying to convince someone of something, interrogation, etc.
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Old 08-14-2018, 01:24 PM   #17
JohnPaulB
 
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Location: Portland, Maine
Default Re: Non-combat characters

Quote:
Originally Posted by SwordlordRoy View Post
one of the players in my group has been on a huge kick of making characters who are more or less like him in real life, a small-business owner. Doesn't matter the system (have you ever tried looking through most of the RIFTS catalog to try and find a merchant class? We just did!), he always wants to stand as far back as possible and open up a shop in the nearest town.

Any recommendations on how to handle something like this in TFT?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Rice View Post
Well it depends on what the other players want to do. If they like more Town-based adventures then that's fine; the difficulty comes if they want to go dungeon delving and he wants to stay home minding shop. In such a case he could be an Alchemist or Wizard who makes and sells magic items. The ingredients for his products are hard to come by so the other players go on adventures to obtain them? Something like that.
My Suggestion: Have Joe's Family own an Inn/Tavern. Joe own's his own business (perhaps an armor shop). Joe has family obligations that have him running the Tavern a couple of days per week.

The inn has a ritzy wing for Expensive PC and a cheap wing for Poverty PCs. The Inn has a safe room where PCs can store their gear. The Tavern is a hotbed for rumors and hirings and contacting adventurers and thieve's guild. This allows Joe to start adventures off with the group, have at his fingertips and ears a lot of rumors and data for the PCs to mine, and a place to hang out.

The Armor shop could be used to fence their murderously acquired orcmail. Joe's employees or family could be used to go on adventures with PCs.

The inn is on a street with other shops. They might have "Protection" problems that lead to hooliganism or fires right next to the inn. Joe might need to organize a bucket brigade to handle putting out the neighbor's fire before the inn gets it. Crassus might bring his Fire Brigade to intimidate the inn's family to sell before it catches fire.

Lots of possibilities.
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Old 08-14-2018, 09:23 PM   #18
Anomylous
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Default Re: Non-combat characters

Lateral-thinking suggestion: my brother is running a campaign where he had the town council send a very ragtag bunch of PC's out to deal with an unknown threat. Fairly straightforward, except the town council turned out to be so SPECTACULARLY INCOMPETENT that now the campaign is almost entirely focused on trying to depose them and set up some better form of government.

As of yet, local tradesmen haven't taken an active part, but no doubt they'll be extremely interested in the proceedings. If we had a PC who was a business owner, that would be extremely valuable as he'd try to mobilize his guild, help turn public opinion against the morons in charge, etc.

TL;DR try running a more politically-focused campaign. Given the right premise, there can still be plenty of head-bashing.
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Old 08-15-2018, 12:59 AM   #19
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: Non-combat characters

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnPaulB View Post
My Suggestion: Have Joe's Family own an Inn/Tavern. Joe own's his own business (perhaps an armor shop). Joe has family obligations that have him running the Tavern a couple of days per week.

The inn has a ritzy wing for Expensive PC and a cheap wing for Poverty PCs. The Inn has a safe room where PCs can store their gear. The Tavern is a hotbed for rumors and hirings and contacting adventurers and thieve's guild. This allows Joe to start adventures off with the group, have at his fingertips and ears a lot of rumors and data for the PCs to mine, and a place to hang out.

The Armor shop could be used to fence their murderously acquired orcmail. Joe's employees or family could be used to go on adventures with PCs.

The inn is on a street with other shops. They might have "Protection" problems that lead to hooliganism or fires right next to the inn. Joe might need to organize a bucket brigade to handle putting out the neighbor's fire before the inn gets it. Crassus might bring his Fire Brigade to intimidate the inn's family to sell before it catches fire.

Lots of possibilities.
Very cool -- this reminds me of Moonlighter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anomylous View Post
Lateral-thinking suggestion: my brother is running a campaign where he had the town council send a very ragtag bunch of PC's out to deal with an unknown threat. Fairly straightforward, except the town council turned out to be so SPECTACULARLY INCOMPETENT that now the campaign is almost entirely focused on trying to depose them and set up some better form of government.

As of yet, local tradesmen haven't taken an active part, but no doubt they'll be extremely interested in the proceedings. If we had a PC who was a business owner, that would be extremely valuable as he'd try to mobilize his guild, help turn public opinion against the morons in charge, etc.

TL;DR try running a more politically-focused campaign. Given the right premise, there can still be plenty of head-bashing.
These are good. As a GM, you have a choice to make these parts pure story, where it's completely up to you if or when things go wrong for the players or you can use contest mechanics to play out situations and see how the PCs do.

Using contest mechanics will give more of a combat-like feel to potential problem situations, allowing playing out making mistakes and attempting to recover from them, allies helping characters, etc. letting characters with social talents influence the dice rolls.

Usually the players go to contests when a situation starts to go south and they want to change it.
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