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Old 11-12-2020, 02:57 PM   #1
phayman53
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Default Question on resolving a wait and all-out defense

I have a question on how to resolve someone using an all-out defense in an attempt to close against someone using a wait maneuver. Here is the situation:

There are only two characters, A and B. Character A and Character B both have reach 1 weapons and are 2 yards apart.

Character A goes first and chooses to wait and attack when character B steps into reach.

Character B chooses an all-out defense (increased defense) for the +2 and then chooses to step into Character A's reach (they are now at 1 yard apart and both are within each other's reach).

Character A's wait is triggered and Character A attacks Character B.

Now what? I assume Character B defends at +2 because of the AoD (Determined). But is it then Character A's turn again because character B cannot attack that turn? If so, and character A chooses to attack, does Character B still get the AoD (Determined) bonus? If it was for a parry or block, does this count as multiple parries or blocks on the same turn?

Thanks!
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Old 11-12-2020, 03:33 PM   #2
zoncxs
 
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Default Re: Question on resolving a wait and all-out defense

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Originally Posted by phayman53 View Post
Now what? I assume Character B defends at +2 because of the AoD (increased defense).
Yes, because that is what they chose on their turn.

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Originally Posted by phayman53 View Post
But is it then Character A's turn again because character B cannot attack that turn?
Yes. Once the wait is resolved, it is then Whoever's turn it would be, in this case, it is now A's turn.

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Originally Posted by phayman53 View Post
If so, and character A chooses to attack, does Character B still get the AoD (Determined) bonus?
Yes. B defense bonus stays until their next turn.

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Originally Posted by phayman53 View Post
If it was for a parry or block, does this count as multiple parries or blocks on the same turn?
Yes. It does count as multiple parries/blocks in the same turn.


So this is what you get:

A - wait -> attack B when within range
B - AoD(+2 dodge), steps within range. A Wait is triggered and attacks, B defend at +2 to dodge
A - Attacks B, B defends still at +2 to dodge for AoD.

Last edited by zoncxs; 11-12-2020 at 03:39 PM.
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Old 11-12-2020, 07:41 PM   #3
phayman53
 
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Default Re: Question on resolving a wait and all-out defense

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Originally Posted by zoncxs View Post
...

So this is what you get:

A - wait -> attack B when within range
B - AoD(+2 dodge), steps within range. A Wait is triggered and attacks, B defend at +2 to dodge
A - Attacks B, B defends still at +2 to dodge for AoD.
Thanks! I guess that means AoD is not as good a solution for overcoming waits as I had initially thought.
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Old 11-12-2020, 08:20 PM   #4
zoncxs
 
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Default Re: Question on resolving a wait and all-out defense

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Originally Posted by phayman53 View Post
Thanks! I guess that means AoD is not as good a solution for overcoming waits as I had initially thought.
It all depends on the fighters and the players.

AoD can work to get pass people who use wait if the person who used AoD knows what to do to win.

If you know your opponent is waiting for you to come within range, AoD helps make sure you can protect yourself while you do that.
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Old 11-13-2020, 12:51 AM   #5
Plane
 
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Default Re: Question on resolving a wait and all-out defense

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Originally Posted by phayman53 View Post
I guess that means AoD is not as good a solution for overcoming waits as I had initially thought.
Waits sort of create an advantage against defenders because you can hold off your attack until they choose their new turn... then start exhausting their defenses... then you're at the top of the initiative order and can choose NOT to wait the next round, and keep pressing.
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Old 11-13-2020, 02:06 PM   #6
Anaraxes
 
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Default Re: Question on resolving a wait and all-out defense

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Originally Posted by phayman53 View Post
does Character B still get the AoD (Determined) bonus? If it was for a parry or block, does this count as multiple parries or blocks on the same turn?
This is perhaps an opportune place to point out that GURPS doesn't have a global turn, as do a lot of other games. There's not one turn in which every character gets to act, with the next turn then starting for everyone. Each character has their own turn, lasting the entire time from one to the next. So all the character turns overlap in a staggered fashion. That may sound complicated, but it's actually easy. Your turn always lasts until the start of your next turn, regardless of when you act. It's not a precise length of time.

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Originally Posted by zoncxs View Post
Yes. Once the wait is resolved, it is then Whoever's turn it would be, in this case, it is now A's turn.
I don't think that's exactly correct. A Wait does not terminate the target's turn; it's just put on hold until the Waiter's action is resolved. (See B366.) The interrupted character then resumes its turn. In this case, B might have some Move remaining and choose to keep on moving. Even a "Stop Thrust" doesn't automatically stop the target from moving.
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Old 11-13-2020, 03:55 PM   #7
zoncxs
 
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Default Re: Question on resolving a wait and all-out defense

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Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
...
I don't think that's exactly correct. A Wait does not terminate the target's turn; it's just put on hold until the Waiter's action is resolved. (See B366.) The interrupted character then resumes its turn. In this case, B might have some Move remaining and choose to keep on moving. Even a "Stop Thrust" doesn't automatically stop the target from moving.
Normally, yes, but specifically to this case, no. I never said a Wait terminates the targets turn.

Person B already chose their maneuver, and moved. There is nothing left for them to do. A attacked with their Wait maneuver once B was within range.

I'll reiterate what I already posted:

A - Wait -> attack B when within range
B - AoD(+2 dodge), steps within range. A Wait is triggered and attacks, B defend at +2 to dodge
A - Attacks B, B defends still at +2 to dodge for AoD.
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Old 11-13-2020, 06:43 PM   #8
Anaraxes
 
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Default Re: Question on resolving a wait and all-out defense

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Person B already chose their maneuver, and moved.
Yes. The result isn't wrong in the example, just the phrasing. I just wanted to make sure it was clear that the Wait is just an interrupt. Whether or not A gets to attack again immediately after the Wait depends on B's choices and character abilities, not A's choice to Wait.

(B's choice of AoD means he has a step, which he's used. But he might have a Step greater than 1 hex, so the one hex closing to within range of A and triggering the Wait might not be everything he has to do, even with AoD. Or he could take free actions after the Wait. Or, getting weirder, he might have ATR (two maneuvers in one turn), and A has just interrupted the first, so when you resume B has a whole 'nother maneuver to choose and execute. Lots of corner cases which make it better to think "interrupt B and resume with B", not "end B". Certainly lots of cases where B has already done everything they're going to do on their turn, so it's going to effectively going to end immediately after you resume with B for lack of anything else to do or simply because B's gotten to where he wants to be, willing to soak the hit -- but not always.)
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