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Old 05-12-2019, 06:26 AM   #1
AlexanderHowl
 
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Default Combat Mastery Talent

When considering Talents, it is not really that unbalanced to have Talents that focus on one combat skill (especially considering that the resulting skill does not improve defaults from the skill). A Combat Mastery Talent would cost 5 CP/level, grant a +1 bonus/level to a Combat Skill, its Combat Skill Art, its Combat Skill Sport, Physiology, and Tactics (it would also give a reaction bonus to anyone who possesses the relevant combat skill, its art form, amd/or its sport form who witnesses the character fighting or practicing).

What do you think? Do you think that it would be balanced? Would you allow such Talents into your games?
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Old 05-12-2019, 07:58 AM   #2
Sorenant
 
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Default Re: Combat Mastery Talent

It's not exactly what you want, but Christopher R. Rice has an article about something similar.
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Old 05-12-2019, 11:15 AM   #3
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Default Re: Combat Mastery Talent

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
Would you allow such Talents into your games?
Yeah. It's five skills and a 5 point talent.

I'd also allow something like so...

Knight Talent 5/lvl
+1 to Brawling, Broadsword, Riding, Shield, and Spear.
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Old 05-12-2019, 12:10 PM   #4
AlexanderHowl
 
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Default Re: Combat Mastery Talent

I do not know if I would allow that version of Knight Talent because it possesses four unrelated combat skills, so it is more of a point crock than anything else because they are not even thematically related (any form of cavalry would benefit from that talent). Since knights were supposed to be leaders of soldiers and heavy cavalry, I think a more interesting version would give a skill bonus Lance, Leadership, Riding (Horse), Shield, and Tactics and a reaction bonus from other knights. Riding (Horse) is a requirement to be a knight, Lance and Shield makes the individual effective heavy cavalry, and Leadership and Tactics makes them effective small unit leaders.
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Old 05-12-2019, 03:30 PM   #5
evileeyore
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Default Re: Combat Mastery Talent

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
... a point crock ...
Why do people refer to things that divert Players from just bumping up Attributes as a "point crock"? It ain't a point crock, it's a strategy.

Quote:
... not even thematically related...
I stopped caring about "thematically related" in Talents a long time ago. If Attributes were so expensive that Players preferred buying 10 or 15 point garbage Talents instead of just raising Attributes* I'd consider "thematically related" to be a requirement.

And the one I posted is thematically related. For my campaign.



* Heck, even if they preferred buying a single 10 point garbage† Talent I'd be happy. Even a 5 pointer without me having to put Attribute caps in place.

† Outdoorsman, Smooth Operator, I'm looking at you. You've got a few friends that are close to being labeled 'garbage' as well, but you two are the egregious ones.
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Old 05-12-2019, 04:32 PM   #6
AlexanderHowl
 
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Default Re: Combat Mastery Talent

I agree that the vast majority of Talents should only be 5 CP/level. In many cases, you are better off buying IQ than many Talents because, when you include the value and utility of Per and Will, it just makes more sense. At 5 CP/level though, it might make sense (especially if the Talent bridges multiple attributes).
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Old 05-12-2019, 06:42 PM   #7
evileeyore
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Default Re: Combat Mastery Talent

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
I agree that the vast majority of Talents should only be 5 CP/level.
That isn't my point. Even 5 point Talents are a hard sell if Players can buy up Attributes.

Though I do agree that Talents that bridge Attributes are 'better' (from some aspects, not as good from others) that's not a requirement for me.
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Old 05-13-2019, 12:46 AM   #8
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Default Re: Combat Mastery Talent

I use the half-stat rule from Pyramid, and skills cost 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 (1, 3, 6, 10, 15) per level but kept the point value for talents the same. But the players can only buy a talent at character creation.
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Old 05-13-2019, 08:25 AM   #9
joppeknol
 
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Default Re: Combat Mastery Talent

Quote:
Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
Why do people refer to things that divert Players from just bumping up Attributes as a "point crock"? It ain't a point crock, it's a strategy.
I think that a perfect RPG shouldn't 'force' players to take certain choices in order to have a better character.

If I have to make a choice to pay 4 cp in order to raise my sword skill by one or pay 5 cp and raise my sword skilll, shield skill, brawling skill, etc and get a +1 reaction bonus, I will always choose the latter. Thus, no PC will ever have a max sword skill without also being an expert in brawling and shield (unless a player deliberately chooses to limit his character). In the end this is boring and unfunny (for me).

The value of a talent should imho be more something that describes the character, than that it is the 'better' choice. Therefore, I would go for thematically related and select the set of skills in such a way that a player has a real choice.

I have to agree that 10 an 15 cp are expensive compared to IQ! I tend to use the house rule that per and will are independent of IQ, making the 10 point talents more useful. 15 cp talents can be expanded to include 30+ skills.
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Old 05-13-2019, 08:58 AM   #10
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Default Re: Combat Mastery Talent

Quote:
Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
Why do people refer to things that divert Players from just bumping up Attributes as a "point crock"? It ain't a point crock, it's a strategy.
A point crock is a strategy. It's a point crock because you are buying skill levels for [1] instead of [4].

Quote:
I stopped caring about "thematically related" in Talents a long time ago.
Which choice serves to eviscerate the concept of a talent and to enable the resulting point crock.

But 'thematically related' wasn't the original concept either. The original idea was for an underlying facility that would be of benefit in a whatever skills it would logically assist. Like being good at social skills because you have 'a way with people'. I agree that several published Talents seem to break from this concept and lump together skills for which there is no logic for an underlying facility crossing over between them (making such Talents point crocks too, IMO).
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