Wizard Errata

[hcobb]

Is a halfling wizard viable under the Wizard boardgame rules?

We came across an interesting edge case on this today that deserves a mention one way of the other in https://thefantasytrip.game/resources/errata/

Wizard boardgame rulebook page 24: "However, his DX is -4 with any weapon except his staff."

Wizard Reference Pages page 7: "Wizard using any weapon except his staff or a dagger -4"

So is the Halfling wizard an expert dagger tosser or not?

[Shostak]

It is reasonable that the rule book should trump the reference pages.

[Skarg]

Originally Posted by hcobb

Is a halfling wizard viable under the Wizard boardgame rules?

"Viable" is a very subjective word, and one I wouldn't associate with penalties for wizards to use weapons.

Originally Posted by hcobb

So is the Halfling wizard an expert dagger tosser or not?

A halfling wizard in Wizard? An expert dagger tosser? Not.

Even in ITL, a halfling wizard would need to use two talent/spell points to learn Knife before they'd be especially good at throwing daggers. Since Wizard has no talents, and assumes wizards don't know how to use weapons well, and since Wizard assumes wizards learn spells with their IQ, it seems pretty clear that a Wizard wizard doesn't spend two points learning Knife talent.

Some of us might say that having two more spells might make them even more "viable" than if they studied knife-throwing.

[Steve Plambeck]

First edition Wizard also states on page 21:

WEAPONS: A wizard may carry two weapons plus a dagger (his staff counts as a weapon). However, his DX is - 4 with ANY weapon except his staff (of course) and a dagger (which anyone can use).

This however is in reference to using the dagger as a melee weapon, in regular or HTH combat, and probably wasn't intended to confuse anyone over spell casting limits or penalties.

[hcobb]

Legacy Wizard rulebook also has at page 23: "He may draw and use a dagger like any Melee fighter, but at -4 DX."

So given the two to one references we can all agree that the Halfling wizard gives up two attribute points for nothing.

[Axly Suregrip]

In Wizard, Halflings are not great as wizards. Neither are Dwarves. Hobgoblins are terrible at everything. It is just a race difference. Not every race is great at every role.

[Steve Plambeck]

Originally Posted by Shostak

It is reasonable that the rule book should trump the reference pages.

Adding to that, as Wizard and its reference pages may not even be owned by all players, one had best go by what ITL says anywhere is disagrees with stand-alone Wizard, or Melee too for that matter.

That said, there is no -4 DX penalty mentioned anywhere in ITL for a wizard using a dagger as a dagger, regardless of the material composition. The -4 penalty is singularly mentioned in conjunction with spell casting -- and spell casting alone -- while holding or wearing iron or steel. The only thing found in ITL that does apply would be a wizard (or anyone else) using a dagger as a dagger without the Knife or Sword Talents, in which case the to hit roll becomes 4 dice. Thus under ITL, a wizard drawing a dagger in HTH, fighting with one, or throwing one is the same as any other figure doing the same, just as the Wizard reference page states.

Original Wizard most likely only had its -4 DX penalty for wizards using regular weapons at all because Talents didn't exist yet. So another blanket rule was needed to leave Melee figures with an advantage over wizards, balancing the advantage spells otherwise gave them over fighters. ITL achieves that balance instead by differential weapon Talent costs for non-wizards and wizards.

I wouldn't dream of charging a wizard a DX penalty in addition to making the to hit roll 4 dice, or 3 dice if they'd paid the doubled cost to learn the needed weapon talent.

[Peter von Kleinsmid]

Originally Posted by Steve Plambeck

... Original Wizard most likely only had its -4 DX penalty for wizards using regular weapons at all because Talents didn't exist yet. So another blanket rule was needed to leave Melee figures with an advantage over wizards, balancing the advantage spells otherwise gave them over fighters. ITL achieves that balance instead by differential weapon Talent costs for non-wizards and wizards.

I wouldn't dream of charging a wizard a DX penalty in addition to making the to hit roll 4 dice, or 3 dice if they'd paid the doubled cost to learn the needed weapon talent.

You're right. The -4 DX penalty mentioned in Wizard is the equivalent of the extra die to hit without weapon talent in Legacy ITL. Use one or the other, but not both.

[Axly Suregrip]

Originally Posted by Steve Plambeck

The only thing found in ITL that does apply would be a wizard (or anyone else) using a dagger as a dagger without the Knife or Sword Talents, in which case the to hit roll becomes 4 dice. Thus under ITL, a wizard drawing a dagger in HTH, fighting with one, or throwing one is the same as any other figure doing the same, just as the Wizard reference page states.

I agree a wizard without knife/sword talent needs 4 dice to hit with or throw a dagger. I disagree he needs 4 dice to draw the dagger in HTH. ITL on page 8 says the extra die is for unskilled attacks. ITL on page 36 says it is for unskilled use. I would not characterize taking something out (drawing) as using it. And drawing is definitely not an attack.

[hcobb]

I might be tempted to rule drawing the dagger as an exercise of the Knife talent and that untalented use requires an additional die.