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Old 12-07-2013, 12:55 PM   #11
Oggsmash
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Default Re: MMA as a style or style lens

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter V. Dell'Orto View Post
Nice. Two comments:

I'd dump Judo - there is a lot of emphasis on takedowns and arm locks, but not on throws. I'd suggest making it optional.

Breakfall is about the same - I see sprawls taught widely, but not going with a throw. So it's probably more of an optional technique.


That said, a lot of schools really do just teach BJJ with the name filed off or left on, or wrestling plus striking (integrated or not), and should just use the box from MA to modify their style appropriately.
Thing is trips can qualify as a very common technique in Judo, as well as there is a great deal of crossing over with certain throws in wrestling and Judo. I would also say, the number of throws being taught in a curriculum that features some MMA training, varies widely, and in the USA Judo emphasis is lesser emphasized due to wrestling and qualified wrestlers being more common, but even then Greco has a good deal of throw emphasis. I think Judo, in a Gurps context is just fine for an MMA focus.
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Old 12-07-2013, 03:35 PM   #12
Peter V. Dell'Orto
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Default Re: MMA as a style or style lens

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Originally Posted by Oggsmash View Post
I think Judo, in a Gurps context is just fine for an MMA focus.
I think that, even prior to Technical Grappling, you could get by pretty well taking people down with Wrestling. With Technical Grappling, Force Posture Charge suits MMA as taught and usually fought a lot more than Judo Throw does, and thus makes Judo an even less suitable choice as the basic grappling skill for MMA. So I recognize what you're saying but I still stand by my assertion.
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Old 12-07-2013, 04:14 PM   #13
DouglasCole
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Default Re: MMA as a style or style lens

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Originally Posted by Peter V. Dell'Orto View Post
I think that, even prior to Technical Grappling, you could get by pretty well taking people down with Wrestling. With Technical Grappling, Force Posture Charge suits MMA as taught and usually fought a lot more than Judo Throw does, and thus makes Judo an even less suitable choice as the basic grappling skill for MMA. So I recognize what you're saying but I still stand by my assertion.
I'd throw in with Peter on this one, and in fact I think this would make a good blog post.

Grappling (skills), HUH! What, are they good for?
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Old 12-07-2013, 07:11 PM   #14
Bira
 
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Default Re: MMA as a style or style lens

There was a difference even before Technical Grappling - IIRC, according to GURPS Martial Arts, you can use Judo to throw someone for damage, while a Wrestling takedown can't do that directly. You can use either skill to establish a lock and then throw from that lock (which causes swing crushing damage to the locked body part and is probably disallowed in any sane competition :)).
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Old 12-08-2013, 01:02 AM   #15
Oggsmash
 
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Default Re: MMA as a style or style lens

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Originally Posted by Peter V. Dell'Orto View Post
I think that, even prior to Technical Grappling, you could get by pretty well taking people down with Wrestling. With Technical Grappling, Force Posture Charge suits MMA as taught and usually fought a lot more than Judo Throw does, and thus makes Judo an even less suitable choice as the basic grappling skill for MMA. So I recognize what you're saying but I still stand by my assertion.
As taught? I am not so sure if you mean real life. But I suppose real life experiences could vary, but understand I am a BJJ Black belt who has been training myself Regarding MMA since 1994, competed and trains and corners people for MMA. I see a whole lot of cross over with wrestling and Judo, especially grass roots level MMA as far as technique and application as to what is practical, especially when working with folks who come from a lesser grappling (people who have not competed extensively in Wrestling or Judo prior to looking to prepare for MMA).

Elite (UFC) level is different, but that has more to do with the overwhelming numbers of wrestlers competing in MMA at the moment (especially in the US). Not as to what is most commonly taught or what is most practical.

I have no idea about technical grappling though as it applies in gurps, Might give it a buy.
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Old 12-08-2013, 01:03 AM   #16
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Default Re: MMA as a style or style lens

But I agree if we are talking about the Gurps death throws of Judo.
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Old 12-08-2013, 01:33 AM   #17
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Default Re: MMA as a style or style lens

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Originally Posted by Peter V. Dell'Orto View Post
I know that BJJ includes Judo, I wrote that style. I'm just saying people who teach a generic MMA style based on what you see fought on TV will tend to use Wrestling more than Judo, making Judo more likely as an option for fighters who favor fighting on the ground.
You know what, I missed this. I would agree a place calling themselves a "mma school" would do exactly this, and that as the OP asked and you responded to regarding Kromm, are right. I was off on a technical details riff. Apologies.
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