[LT] Sheaths for melee weapons

[Kraken]

Page 57 of Low-Tech includes rules for sheaths for a character's melee weapons - specifically knives and swords.

These optional rules state that approximately 2/3 of the listed weight is for the weapon and 1/3 is for the scabbard. It also states that a replacement sheath costs 1/5 of the cost of a good-quality weapon.

If you were using these optional rules, would that mean that the weapon costs 80% of the listed price and the sheath costs 20%? Normally this can be ignored, but could be relevant if a character tries to buy a knife without a sheath.

The other big impact this could have is when purchasing fine-quality and decorated weapons. If you are using the optional sheath rules it would not make sense for a character to pay the fine, balanced, etc. CF for the sheath, only for the weapon (why do you need a perfectly balanced sheath?). In this way, a character can pay the high CF for 80% of the weapin cost and a lower CF (maybe for decoration, etc.) for the 20% sheath component. This would give a cost saving against simply multiplying the whole cost.

Does this sound like a correct assessment of the costs?

[NorphTehDwarf]

That represents more work than I'd put into an item, but it makes sense.

[Sam Baughn]

Originally Posted by Kraken

The other big impact this could have is when purchasing fine-quality and decorated weapons. If you are using the optional sheath rules it would not make sense for a character to pay the fine, balanced, etc. CF for the sheath, only for the weapon (why do you need a perfectly balanced sheath?). In this way, a character can pay the high CF for 80% of the weapin cost and a lower CF (maybe for decoration, etc.) for the 20% sheath component. This would give a cost saving against simply multiplying the whole cost.

Does this sound like a correct assessment of the costs?

I think it would be better to treat removing the sheath as a -20% (or whatever value you think is appropriate) Cost Factor. I don't really see it as reasonable to save 20% of the difference between a good blade and a fine one by removing the sheath.

[vicky_molokh]

I'd say the listed sheathe cost is for an unmodified weapon. Just assume that the 20% of the original unmodified cost of a weapon is the sheathe, even for Fine weapons.

[Lupo]

Sheaths cause a lot of trouble if you use the 1/3 - 20% rules.

In our campaigns, we just assume that the weight and cost of Sheaths are negligible, and that characters always have appropriate sheaths for their weapons (unless, of course, they just escaped from prison or something).

And, if for some reason I really wanted to be detailed and accurate about sheaths, I'd rule that they weigh 1 lb and cost $50, in addition to the weapon (in order to avoid all the recalculations and weird stuff that happens if you mess with listed weapon costs and weights).

I never understood why GURPS went into so much trouble just for accounting for sheaths.

[jacobmuller]

Whatever weapon you buy, if it's meant to have a sheath, it's included. But if you lose, damage or otherwise need to buy a sheath, then it's 20% of the cost of that weapon. If you buy a fancy sword, they give you a better sheath.
Isn't there an option for poorer quality, lighter sheaths and the detriment to weapon health?

A sheath that weighs 50% of the weapon weight does seem excessive - must go weigh my sword & wooden sheath... 2.2lbs total, 1.76lb sword, 0.44lb sheath. I've never done that before - never even thought about the weight. But that's 4/1 not 2/1

[DanHoward]

Originally Posted by Lupo

I never understood why GURPS went into so much trouble just for accounting for sheaths.

Because weapon weights are too high and GURPS needed a mechanism to stop having to revise all the weapon weights down to historical values.

[Lupo]

Originally Posted by DanHoward

Because weapon weights are too high and GURPS needed a mechanism to stop having to revise all the weapon weights down to historical values.

Are they really that high? I tought that a broadsword's weight was 1.1 - 1.3 kgs, and "3 lbs" was a good approximation for it. Does a broadsword actually weighs just 900g ?

Even if they are too high, I think a better approach would be revise weapon weights, and keep sheaths weight/cost separate, to avoid all the confusion with Fine swords, odds of breakage and so on.
Also because not all weapons have sheaths, so their (unrealistically high, I suppose) weight won't be reduced by the "sheath" rule...

In your opinion, which weapons should be reduced in weight, and by how much?
Or alternatively, do you happen to have a houseruled weapon tables you use in your games? :)

[DanHoward]

Generally speaking, any weapon intended to be wielded in one hand rarely weighs more than 2.5 lbs with many being less than 2 lbs. Doesn't matter whether it is a sword, mace or axe. There are exceptions but this is a good rule of thumb.

Here is a good example regarding maces. I started this when I discovered that Oakeshott was wrongly being used as a source for mace weights in Low-Tech.
http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=15182

[Ze'Manel Cunha]

Originally Posted by DanHoward

Generally speaking, any weapon intended to be wielded in one hand rarely weighs more than 2.5 lbs with many being less than 2 lbs. Doesn't matter whether it is a sword, mace or axe. There are exceptions but this is a good rule of thumb.

Here is a good example regarding maces. I started this when I discovered that Oakeshott was wrongly being used as a source for mace weights in Low-Tech.
http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=15182

If you take a look at some of the scientific papers written on baseball bats, they fully agree with you, and even for a 2 handed bat the ideal weight seems to be (Height/3 + 7 oz), which put even two handed bats under 2.5 pounds.

http://paws.kettering.edu/~drussell/bats-new/batw8.html

The next site/PDF is another paper by the above researcher addressing moment of inertia and the benefits of top-loading a bat, it looks like if he keeps going along this line of research he's going to conclude that the ideal design of a baseball bat for increasing distance is going to look like a mace, fancy that. *grin*

http://www.kettering.edu/~drussell/P...wingWeight.pdf