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Old 04-05-2021, 09:13 PM   #11
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: Feats!

Also:

Flying kick: as pole weapon charge
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Old 04-06-2021, 10:50 AM   #12
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: Feats!

I like the idea of TFT 'Feats' as special, even cinematic actions, like the flying kick idea above. These are in keeping with ideas found in the UC talents, Fencing and weapon expertise, so I think you can fold them in without negatively impacting or clashing with the underlying game system. I'm less drawn to the idea of Feats as a kind of meta-currency for stretching or violating basic rules of movement, engagement, facing, and actions. To me, this clashes with the basic design ideas behind the game, sort of like a feat that would let you play checkers with one of your pieces having the movement qualities of a knight in chess.
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Old 04-06-2021, 11:02 AM   #13
phiwum
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default Re: Feats!

Quote:
Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
I like the idea of TFT 'Feats' as special, even cinematic actions, like the flying kick idea above. These are in keeping with ideas found in the UC talents, Fencing and weapon expertise, so I think you can fold them in without negatively impacting or clashing with the underlying game system. I'm less drawn to the idea of Feats as a kind of meta-currency for stretching or violating basic rules of movement, engagement, facing, and actions. To me, this clashes with the basic design ideas behind the game, sort of like a feat that would let you play checkers with one of your pieces having the movement qualities of a knight in chess.
How would that not be awesome?
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Old 04-06-2021, 12:07 PM   #14
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: Feats!

I feel like the basic rules engines of TFT were explicitly designed as a competitive game, and competitive games where one side works under different basic rules from the other aren't that fun. I.e., if one side (correctly) feels it is a set-up job that they can't win because they aren't allowed to play like the other side plays, then what's the point?
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Old 04-06-2021, 03:07 PM   #15
phiwum
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default Re: Feats!

Oh, I agree with all that, Lars.

I just don't get why you think checkers with one unmarked horsey would be a bad game. In fact, I'm tossing out the rest of my games. That one really works.
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Old 04-06-2021, 09:16 PM   #16
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: Feats!

Sounds a bit like Plateau
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Old 04-06-2021, 11:03 PM   #17
David Bofinger
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Sydney, Australia
Default Re: Feats!

My list of advanced combat talents was vaguely like this. The idea was that each did something different, and something easy to visualise, that could be a defining capability of a character. So that you could say, "My character is a dragon slayer, he's better at killing giant monsters than people his own size," and the system would provide a talent to make him like that.


Delete the following talents: Shield Expertise, all kinds of Weapon Expertise, Fencer, all kinds of Weapon Mastery, Master Fencer.

New Advanced Combat Talent: Defensive (IQ 11, cost 2) When the character takes a Defend action he may also attack but must roll an extra die to hit. If the character has a large or tower shield then missile attacks from the front must also roll an extra die to hit when he takes the Defend action.

New Advanced Combat Talent: Shield Wall (IQ 11, cost 1) When a figure adjacent to you is hit, if (a) you have a large or tower shield ready, (b) the attack is something that can be affected by a shield, (c) the attacker is in your front and (d) you are at least as close to the attacker as the target is, then you may stop 2 hits from that attack.

New Advanced Combat Talent: Giant Slayer (IQ 10, cost 2, cost 1 with Naturalist). Attacks against a figure of 3 hexes or more receive +1 DX and +1 die damage. Roll one less die when trying to shift away from being overrun by a multi-hex figure or when trying to roll out from under such a figure. Trample attacks roll one more die when trying to hit them.

New Advanced Combat Talent: Mighty Blow (IQ 9, cost 2) For a penalty of ‑1 DX and 1 fatigue, may make a melee attack a mighty blow. If it hits it causes extra damage equal to the unarmed damage for the weapon’s ST requirement (additional damage minimum is 0), +1 for a one-handed weapon, +2 for a two-handed weapon.

New Advanced Combat Talent: Distract (IQ 11, cost 1) Immediately after movement you do something flamboyant (and probably noisy) to attract the attention of a figure you engage (and anyone else paying attention to you). If the figure fails a 3/IQ roll then you may rotate it 60 degrees toward you, and in the rest of the turn if it attacks a figure that isn’t you it rolls one extra die. Subsequent uses of this ability by the same character on the same figure only require 2/IQ.

New Advanced Combat Talent: Hand-to-Hand (IQ 10, cost 2). When a figure with Hand-to-Hand talent attempts to enter HTH against a figure without Hand-to-Hand talent, instead of just rolling one die as described in ITL 116‑7 the enemy figure rolls twice (rerolling 6s if from behind) and takes the lowest roll. When a figure without Hand-to-Hand talent attempts to enter HTH against a figure with Hand-to-Hand talent, instead of just rolling one die as described in ITL 116‑7 the enemy figure rolls twice (rerolling 6s if from behind) and takes the highest roll. Enemy figures do not receive the +4 DX bonus for the target being in HTH if the target has the Hand-to-Hand talent. A figure with Hand-to-Hand talent does +1 damage in HTH attacks. Hand-to-Hand talent has the same effect on pinning attempts (ITL 117) as a level of Unarmed Combat.

New Advanced Combat Talent: Subdue (IQ 11, cost 1) When using the Taking Prisoners rules (ITL 126) blows do four‑fifths damage (round off) instead of half.

New Advanced Combat Talent: Disarm (IQ 11, cost 1) Against a weapon of the same type, or any weapon requiring the same or less ST as his own, the character may strike to disarm. Announce that the attack is to disarm, and make the regular to-hit roll. On a success, the foe must roll 3/DX (2/DX if the target has Disarm) or drop their weapon.


New Talent: Battle Expert (IQ 13, cost 2) Allows the activation of two different advanced combat talents in a turn, each activated once. Otherwise only one advanced combat talent can be activated, once, in a turn.

New Talent: Battle Master (IQ 14, cost 2, prerequisite Battle Expert) Allows the activation of three different advanced combat talents in a turn, each activated once.


Last edited by David Bofinger; 04-06-2021 at 11:04 PM. Reason: format conversion errors
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Old 04-07-2021, 04:56 AM   #18
Anaraxes
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Default Re: Feats!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kieddicus View Post
Also could you explain "Feat Tax" I am not quite sure what you are getting at.
The usage I'm familiar with in D&D jargon refers to a a feat (or chain of feats) that becomes obligatory, either because it's too good not to take, or because it's a practical necessity for a character of that class, and your character becomes gimped if you take something else instead. The apparently free choices of feats is an illusion when the actual effect is that all characters of a certain class must take certain abilities (or else be willing to just be weaker than intended). So, a "tax" because it takes away from your actual choices; such things would have been better put into the class ability list where they're automatically assigned, without reducing the ability to customize a character or follow different paths.

In this case, why even introduce the word "feat"? The suggestions upthread are simply new Talents.
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Old 04-07-2021, 10:44 AM   #19
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: Feats!

The 'obligatory option' is definitely one of the hazards of tinkering with a well balanced system. I think a good rule of thumb with TFT is that if you add an option that is clearly a net advantage over most or all characters who lack it in a Melee-arena combat situation, then you've damaged the balance in the system and are on your way to game breaking 'ideal builds'
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Old 04-07-2021, 01:33 PM   #20
Kieddicus
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Default Re: Feats!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
The usage I'm familiar with in D&D jargon refers to a a feat (or chain of feats) that becomes obligatory, either because it's too good not to take, or because it's a practical necessity for a character of that class...
Thanks for clearing that up for me. I never got big into TTRPGs ofther than TFT and it has been sometime since I played regularly so I am behind on jargon. And feat tax is a concern of mine, which is why I am planning on players have exactly one feat, no more no less; additionally I wanted to come up with at least 2 if not three feats per play style that way players still had some options.

Quote:
Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
The 'obligatory option' is definitely one of the hazards of tinkering with a well balanced system. I think a good rule of thumb with TFT is that if you add an option that is clearly a net advantage over most or all characters who lack it in a Melee-arena combat situation, then you've damaged the balance in the system and are on your way to game breaking 'ideal builds'
I agree!
However I can't get past the idea that wizards for some reason learn everything about life at half the rate as everyone else, but I know if you made talents cost the same for both heroes and wizards than the game wouldn't work.

My goal is to make a system that allows wizards to learn of to climb and swim like everyone else while still keeping heroes and wizards balanced.
Instead of feats I could give all heroes the same advantage as each other, whatever that might be. You could give them a bonus to XP or the ability to reroll 1 die per action. But both of those feel odd... I'll talk with my brothers and see if we can figure something out.

I guess another way is just make wizardry a 3 or 4 cost talent.
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