New Reality Seeds

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by patchwork

Giray-2: The standoff and negotiations along the Ugra River in 1480 go...wrong...and Ivan the Great is dead early. Ivan Molodoy will be busy trying to bring his uncles into line (and will probably fail), Yaroslavl is likely secure but Novgorod and Rostov were both conquered recently enough that rebellion is highly likely, Tver and Kazan were not conquered yet...in such a volatile situation, the Church probably avoids explicitly stating who it thinks is properly Tsar until there's a clear winner to back...and the seizure of Prince Yuri's lands is an isolated incident rather than an established custom.

In this world, "Russia" never unifies and is instead a half-dozen squabbling Principalities. Without a strong Tsar to enforce Orthodoxy, Roman Catholicism, Lutheranism and Islam are all more prevalent than they were on Homeline. On the other hand, without Ivan Grozny, the Russian states are models of liberal capitalism, whether they are republics or principalities.

I'd put it in Quantum 5 in the age of revolution, perhaps 1780; Poland is disintegrating, but instead of being partitioned between Russia and Prussia, the Russians are doing their best to rebuild the place as several small, liberal nations like they did with Lithuania. Constitutions and Rights of Man are creeping into central Europe from the East, and there is no "Policeman of Europe" to defend absolutism. The Homeline Russian government is happily exploiting Siberian mineral wealth, while the American and French Homeline governments and the Russian Mafiya are all meddling (plus, no doubt, some Homeline idiots unaffiliated with any major government). Infinity's hands will be full dealing with all the people who see an opportunity to make this worldline over in their image.

Wow this a really original and glamorous setting!

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by patchwork

Yeah. Reich-2's gotta be giving some people in Infinity ulcers too - some of the Resistance have figured out the Secret, but the Patrol wasn't willing to silence people who were fighting Nazi occupiers- but what are they gonna do when they win?

Co-opt them is the only possibility.

[patchwork]

Originally Posted by Astromancer

Wow this a really original and glamorous setting!

What would be the point of posting derivative and dull settings? ;) Thank you.

[warellis]

Originally Posted by patchwork

What would be the point of posting derivative and dull settings? ;) Thank you.

What is the TL of Giray-2?

[Drifter]

Originally Posted by patchwork

What would be the point of posting derivative and dull settings? ;) Thank you.

Sometimes thats all some of us can come up with :P

[Anders]

J.R.R. Tolkien is killed during World War I. This has profound effects on the field of fantastic fiction.

[patchwork]

Originally Posted by warellis

What is the TL of Giray-2?

I'm gonna guess early 5; I didn't imagine any significant changes to technological development, though I'd be happy to hear contrasting opinions on that.

[Drifter]

Originally Posted by Anders

J.R.R. Tolkien is killed during World War I. This has profound effects on the field of fantastic fiction.

Tolkien seemed to unify fantasy in Western literature. I've been reading Lord Dunsansy lately, an influence on Tolkien, and I can see the difference in perspective the leading fantasy author before Tolkien had. There was a lack of unity, even if he mentions some characters from one story in another, there is nothing like the detailed world-buildings Tolkien did. Today the "default" fantasy idea is a medieval setting with wizards and goblins and brave heros defeating a dark magical power. That might not exist if Tolkien didn't establish it.

CS Lewis might not have become a published author either, if his friend wasn't there to write "popular" fiction as well.

Constructed languages, detailed world settings over multiple books, franchises of settings might not have taken off. Fantasy would be a niche literature, like 19th century French poetry.

With no widespread fantasy, maybe SF doesn't take off, or at least it doesn't move beyond its similar, very restricted niche.

On the one hand you might get later half 20th century with far less imagination, far more serious, grim and doting on political and economic ideology rather than wondering where society could go. With less to inspire them leading engineers might not make the advances we take for granted. We might have room sized mainframes that are AI, but no cell phones.

On the other hand, you might get some fantastically gifted authors writing about "real world" issues, with advances in social and economic issues the indirect results of their writings.

[Flyndaran]

More likely you would get different authors creating worlds with mythologies not so Christian or Eurocentric as Carol or Tolkien.

[Drifter]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

More likely you would get different authors creating worlds with mythologies not so Christian or Eurocentric as Carol or Tolkien.

Thats the trouble though, isn't it? Remember that the Lord of the Rings was published in 1954. Not exactly a time when non-Christian/Eurocentric writing would be easily accepted, at least in the US. Crazy mythologies, especially those based on real life, with non-Classical sources, would not be accepted. Different authors might produce gems, but they keep to a very small audience.

One thing you don't get is Dungeons and Dragons. Without D&D you don't get an RPG industry; no Traveller, no Tunnels and Trolls, no Petal Throne, no GURPS. Gary Gygax becomes an insurance salesman with a weird minatures hobby, Steve Jackson becomes a lawyer.

Call this time Dunsany-1, fantasy literature looking more like Magical Realism, SF not popular beyond a niche crowd. TL is the same but more centralized; Ma Bell and IBM rule the very separate telecommunications and computer industries. No Space Race, satellites replaced with ultra high altitude balloons. The Civil Rights Movement is much more powerful, with authors like Bradbury, Beagle, L'Engel and Le Guin producing resounding literature accepted by a wide audience.

Its 2001 and the Soviets are launching manned aerostats, aiming to tap into Western communications balloons. China and Russia keep squabbling over border disputes, but China is restive with peasant uprisings. Japanese mini-transistor radio/TVs are popular in the US and Europe, small enough to hold in your hand. Tim Powers has the best novel of the year, yet another James Bond "homage".