New Reality Seeds

[fchase8]

Originally Posted by Drifter

Of course. This might be a front of a larger reality war, with R5 hunting down and aiding Nazi worlds, and Homeline fighting it.

I'm not sure if Germany would be the main government hunting down (non-R5) Nazis though. Israel and the Mossad would have a great interest in hunting Nazis. They may, or may not, work with Germany and the US to track down R5 operations, as well as garden variety Nazi survival worlds.

If Reich-5 is involved, it would have to be a Quantum 3 world, as their parachronic capability seems limited to in-quantum. A pre-Nazi German civil war doesn't seem 'weird' enough for Q3, but it could be there.

Is Mossad involved in Q3 worlds? Those are the hardest to reach, and so Infinity has more control over who accesses them. Did Mossad ever try to get involved on Reich-5?

Maybe there could be an Israeli-German team-up to intervene on this world - Germany would provide the tech and U.N. cover, while Israel would have the experienced agents. It would still be a wary team-up - even though Homeline is almost 100 years since Nazi/Holocaust/WWII Germany, it would still be on everyone's mind (especially parachronic agents who see it up close, and not just on this timeline).


Also, and not just in regards to this timeline, how aware is Infinity of Reich-5's parachronic capability? It's a secret on Reich-5, even from the Nazi leadership.

If Infinity knows at all, they likely would keep it secret from Homeline governments (given how secret/restricted Infinity tries to keep Reich-5 itself).

[Drifter]

Originally Posted by fchase8

If Reich-5 is involved, it would have to be a Quantum 3 world, as their parachronic capability seems limited to in-quantum. A pre-Nazi German civil war doesn't seem 'weird' enough for Q3, but it could be there.

Is Mossad involved in Q3 worlds? Those are the hardest to reach, and so Infinity has more control over who accesses them. Did Mossad ever try to get involved on Reich-5?

As I said, Israel has the full backing of the US, so they can go where ever the US can go. R5 would be too big for them to handle alone, Infinity itself might ask Mossad agents to help out on that timeline.

Maybe there could be an Israeli-German team-up to intervene on this world - Germany would provide the tech and U.N. cover, while Israel would have the experienced agents. It would still be a wary team-up - even though Homeline is almost 100 years since Nazi/Holocaust/WWII Germany, it would still be on everyone's mind (especially parachronic agents who see it up close, and not just on this timeline).

Its still Nazi Germany, if nothing else (a century on) its still going to resound culturally. Any Nazi world is going to be given the stink-eye, as it were.

I agree a German-Israeli team up is going to have its stress. A US involvement would take the sting out of that relationship. That said, there are going to be points where it would benefit Germany and/or Israel NOT to include the US in certain missions. Anything that involves attacking alternate US assets of any sort, for example.

Also, and not just in regards to this timeline, how aware is Infinity of Reich-5's parachronic capability? It's a secret on Reich-5, even from the Nazi leadership.

If Infinity knows at all, they likely would keep it secret from Homeline governments (given how secret/restricted Infinity tries to keep Reich-5 itself).

Completely agree. We are getting ahead of ourselves on the spread of Reich-5 travels in the multiverse. Official game setting has it small and manageable yet.
Infinity will keep this a dark dark DARK secret. Homeline countries, if they find out, would immediately demand they have direct access to crosstime tech. Firstly to protect themselves from the Nazi threat. Secondly, because Infinity somehow let the Secret slip into Nazi hands, so obviously they can't be trusted with the Secret anymore. That is bunk of course, but thats the way to play it - the Secret is too big for Infinity to handle alone.
Ironically that is probably true.

[fchase8]

Originally Posted by Drifter

As I said, Israel has the full backing of the US, so they can go where ever the US can go. R5 would be too big for them to handle alone, Infinity itself might ask Mossad agents to help out on that timeline.

I thought that the U.S. just backs Israel's crosstime policies - not necessarily that Israeli agents get access to anything America has. I thought it was basically modeled off of the U.S.-Israel relationship at the time of writing (nineties).

There are still intelligence issues between the U.S. and Israel - there have been some high-profile spying cases in America of Israeli agents.

Originally Posted by Drifter

Its still Nazi Germany, if nothing else (a century on) its still going to resound culturally. Any Nazi world is going to be given the stink-eye, as it were.

I agree a German-Israeli team up is going to have its stress. A US involvement would take the sting out of that relationship. That said, there are going to be points where it would benefit Germany and/or Israel NOT to include the US in certain missions. Anything that involves attacking alternate US assets of any sort, for example.

I like the idea of Americans playing referee in an Israeli-German team-up. The whole thing seems like an idea thought up by intelligence overseers wanting a 'big win' to further their career - the kind of people who would be frustrated by the I-Cops getting all the 'good' crosstime intelligence missions. The top people in the central offices would decide to go through with this, but then not of thought of all the difficulties, leaving that in the laps of the agents.

An Israeli-German mission in a pre-Nazi German civil war, dealing with Homeline bureaucracy, is decidedly not your standard Infinite Worlds campaign...

Originally Posted by Drifter

Completely agree. We are getting ahead of ourselves on the spread of Reich-5 travels in the multiverse. Official game setting has it small and manageable yet.
Infinity will keep this a dark dark DARK secret. Homeline countries, if they find out, would immediately demand they have direct access to crosstime tech. Firstly to protect themselves from the Nazi threat. Secondly, because Infinity somehow let the Secret slip into Nazi hands, so obviously they can't be trusted with the Secret anymore. That is bunk of course, but thats the way to play it - the Secret is too big for Infinity to handle alone.
Ironically that is probably true.

No one is really responsible enough to keep the secret (Centrum has probably had some slips...). It sounds like Infinity has done a pretty good job, keeping the secret and not acting too unethically.

But just utter the word 'Nazi' and people are going to go nuts...

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by Cthugha

Well, subjugation of (most) German principalities sounds plausible, however conquering the rest of Europe is less likely. Russia may became world's premier superpower, but this does not lead to the direct domination of the entire Europe, especially considering that Spain, Britain and France will still have their colonial empires.

Sounds like interesting variant cultures. It also sets up some lively international politics. Queen Victoria marrying a maharaja and founding a much stronger British Raj might be one outcome.

On the other hand I don't see why hypothetical Russia of 1920s will have a great military disadvantage against America (because, well, if you are talking about "meat grinder" for only one side of conflict, and that other side will be merely "tired", it's clear that first side is worse off in every aspect, except numbers).

In my scenario Russia is industrially under developed. Thus which side is doing the bleeding might not be so simple.

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by PTTG

Might be interesting to have a worldline where the Nazis won in Europe, but then underwent a decades-long series of reforms. It's now 2000 and the current government is basically a liberal democracy (though still NAZI in name), trades with the USA and Britain, and quietly acknowledges that "mistakes were made" in the past. Reich-5 would despise them, Homeline would be... very complex... and centrum would be quite upset about them not speaking English and being too strong for the Allies to overcome.

Some complexities one lives with. Look at the USA's history with native Americans. Do we kill the US to make amends?

[Drifter]

Originally Posted by fchase8

I thought that the U.S. just backs Israel's crosstime policies - not necessarily that Israeli agents get access to anything America has. I thought it was basically modeled off of the U.S.-Israel relationship at the time of writing (nineties).

There are still intelligence issues between the U.S. and Israel - there have been some high-profile spying cases in America of Israeli agents.

IW mentions in one spot that Israel did not ratify the Interworld Treaty. From that I assume it does not have direct access to crosstime tech of any sort. In another spot the book mentions how Israel uses the Mossad to openly defy Infinities immigration rules, bringing in Jewish refugees from various timelines. In the same sidebar it mentions how US public opinion fully supports Israel; my assumption is a direct connection between US forces with access to crosstime tech and Israel/Mossad.
This would be a much closer association than what was happening in our (shared) 90s, but not unlikely in the Homeline timeline if reports of Nazi worlds or similar situations with various other actors reaches the US or Israel. Never again means never again.

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by Astromancer

Some complexities one lives with. Look at the USA's history with native Americans.

I don't know, I could certainly see some factions on Homeline pressing for some level of intervention, restitution and even punishment. Or at least efforts to deny the US the kind of rights to it's OTL equivalent territory that other nations seem to get in favor of native sovereign governments.

Honestly though, I think lines with surviving but significantly post-war Nazi regimes will be fairly uninteresting. There were lots of other variants of state socialism that were not much better than Nazism that seem to have managed to get along with the rest of the world enough not to be crushed, and even mellowed into more or less ordinarily tolerated regimes. Numbers for both are iffy, but the Holocaust and the Cultural Revolution are in the same order of magnitude (more than a million killed, fewer than 10) and yet despite that, and being more recent too, it's not much of a factor in China's international relations anymore.

[patchwork]

A conveyor only costs about $2 million to build; Homeline Israel is perfectly capable of building and operating a few, the USA would veto any UN-based attempt to invade or declaw them, and Infinity doesn't dare undercut the UN on Homeline because that's the basis for its own authority. Projectors are a much bigger matter, and beyond Israel's apparent capabilities. The price tag on conveyors is low enough (and the science a matter of public record on Homeline) so that criminal kingpins, major corporations, eccentric billionaires and the LAPD all have one...Infinity has the legal right but not the practical ability to control messes on Quantum 5...

[PTTG]

Originally Posted by patchwork

A conveyor only costs about $2 million to build; Homeline Israel is perfectly capable of building and operating a few, the USA would veto any UN-based attempt to invade or declaw them, and Infinity doesn't dare undercut the UN on Homeline because that's the basis for its own authority. Projectors are a much bigger matter, and beyond Israel's apparent capabilities. The price tag on conveyors is low enough (and the science a matter of public record on Homeline) so that criminal kingpins, major corporations, eccentric billionaires and the LAPD all have one...Infinity has the legal right but not the practical ability to control messes on Quantum 5...

When did the LAPD get a conveyor?

[Drifter]

Originally Posted by patchwork

A conveyor only costs about $2 million to build; Homeline Israel is perfectly capable of building and operating a few, the USA would veto any UN-based attempt to invade or declaw them, and Infinity doesn't dare undercut the UN on Homeline because that's the basis for its own authority. Projectors are a much bigger matter, and beyond Israel's apparent capabilities. The price tag on conveyors is low enough (and the science a matter of public record on Homeline) so that criminal kingpins, major corporations, eccentric billionaires and the LAPD all have one...Infinity has the legal right but not the practical ability to control messes on Quantum 5...

Wouldn't that lead to a situation like with have with North Korea and nukes? We are worried about how they use them, and who they might sell one to under the table. The leak of the technology would undercut Infinity's monopoly, and the UN is beholden to Infinity for some unspecified reason.

That reason is obviously left to the GM, and hopefully it won't come up in play. It would define the relationship between the UN, Infinity, and by default, the PCs to Homeline. If its not a block buster of a thing, it might bring the whole campaign down. If its too much of an epic, it might make the campaign a farce.

Originally Posted by PTTG

When did the LAPD get a conveyor?

I'd like to know that too :)