Realm Management Traditional Economy

[Leesplez]

The "Traditional" Economy in Realm Management says that as Drawback is "50% of Revenue is immediately converted into Luxury/Precious Goods Points instead" (pg. 21).

That's a ton of Luxury/Precious Goods Points, assuming that conversion occurs at the rate of buying/selling RP from page 37. I created a small feudal County using the Realm Management rules and, as written, I'm getting 111 Luxury/Precious Goods Points per turn from this, which doesn't really make much sense mechanically (especially since Luxury/Precious Goods Points seem mostly useless in the rules as written).

Am I missing something about this rule, or how Luxury/Precious Goods Points are used?

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Leesplez

The "Traditional" Economy in Realm Management says that as Drawback is "50% of Revenue is immediately converted into Luxury/Precious Goods Points instead."

That's a ton of Luxury/Precious Goods Points, assuming that conversion occurs at the rate of buying/selling RP from page 37. I created a small feudal County using the Realm Management rules and, as written, I'm getting 111 Luxury/Precious Goods Points per turn from this, which doesn't really make much sense mechanically (especially since Luxury/Precious Goods Points seem mostly useless in the rules as written).

Am I missing something about this rule, or how Luxury/Precious Goods Points are used?

This is one of those things that I couldn't cover in this book but I wanted firmly in the rules. They are meant to be traded away to places that want them. You could reduce the value from 50% if you wanted, perhaps 25% or even 10% and it would be mostly balanced (maybe). Traditionalist economies should probably have more "stuff" on hand than "cash."

[Leesplez]

Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice

This is one of those things that I couldn't cover in this book but I wanted firmly in the rules. They are meant to be traded away to places that want them. You could reduce the value from 50% if you wanted, perhaps 25% or even 10% and it would be mostly balanced (maybe). Traditionalist economies should probably have more "stuff" on hand than "cash."

Ah, makes sense, thank you! Yes the % could change depending on the context, and a Feudal system with a "Traditional/Subsistence" economy might also be less. Also, if a GM is specifying that Luxury/Precious Goods Points are costing more than the base cost of RP (as the entry on page 37 suggests, i.e. they're "worth at least 20% more") then that big number (111 for me) would shrink. And it's a good way for the GM to ask the players to specify what goods are being produced, as a way to spur trade efforts.

And advice for GM who finds themselves with players sitting on hundreds of Luxury/Precious Goods points and not using them? Is there any way they can be used other than selling/trading?

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Leesplez

Ah, makes sense, thank you! Yes the % could change depending on the context, and a Feudal system with a "Traditional/Subsistence" economy might also be less.

Indeed.

Originally Posted by Leesplez

Also, if a GM is specifying that Luxury/Precious Goods Points are costing more than the base cost of RP (as the entry on page 37 suggests, i.e. they're "worth at least 20% more") then that big number (111 for me) would shrink. And it's a good way for the GM to ask the players to specify what goods are being produced, as a way to spur trade efforts.

Absolutely. Love this. Hadn't even considered that to be honest. That's gonna be an optional rule in a book (if I write another book).

Originally Posted by Leesplez

And advice for GM who finds themselves with players sitting on hundreds of Luxury/Precious Goods points ands not using them? Is there any way they can be used other than selling/trading?

I'd lean heavily on the roleplaying part of this supplement. Luxury good prices are really subjective and should be treated as such. Maybe you got a hold of something really wanted by another country, but you need to find a way to get it there. Maybe your goods are perishable (like tulips) and you need to find a buyer fast. Maybe it's magical or some such and while valuable get more valuable to mages or other casters who can fully unlock their abilities.

[Leesplez]

Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice

Absolutely. Love this. Hadn't even considered that to be honest. That's gonna be an optional rule in a book (if I write another book).

I'd lean heavily on the roleplaying part of this supplement. Luxury good prices are really subjective and should be treated as such. Maybe you got a hold of something really wanted by another country, but you need to find a way to get it there. Maybe your goods are perishable (like tulips) and you need to find a buyer fast. Maybe it's magical or some such and while valuable get more valuable to mages or other casters who can fully unlock their abilities.

I love that! For such an optional rule I think you could (1) create a category system of a dozen or so types of Luxury/Precious Goods to help GMs and players specify what their Realm is producing, especially in the context of a traditional economy (but also the Manufacture maneuver), and (2) create a new maneuver that allows players to spend Luxury/Precious Goods points, as an incentive to buy them (and a narrative reason why my feudal neighbor who's also sitting on ~100 Luxury/Precious Goods points wants to buy my specific Luxury/Precious Goods they lack).

#2 could be a modified Allocate Resources move. So, for example, the players spends a maneuver (perhaps Trade, or just buy) to acquire some magical tomes, then next turn does a modified Allocate Resources ("Allocate Precious Resources") move where they spend the Workforce and Luxury/Precious Goods points (representing their mages learning the Tomes' secrets), but then get a bonus. To get more detailed, if one of the categories of Luxury/Precious Goods is "Concealed Knowledge" (e.g., books in a medieval setting, intelligence reports in a modern setting, alien artifacts in a future setting), the "Allocate Precious Resources" maneuver gives a bonus on a relevant future maneuver roll related to knowledge (and perhaps a permanent bonus to Realm related skills if enough of Luxury/Precious Goods points are expended, similar to the Improve maneuver).

This also allows players to spend their own Luxury/Precious Goods points, e.g. my medieval realm makes fine wine and I'm gonna expend it to increase my population's loyalty by distributing it to the population rather than selling it.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Leesplez

I love that! For such an optional rule I think you could (1) create a category system of a dozen or so types of Luxury/Precious Goods to help GMs and players specify what their Realm is producing, especially in the context of a traditional economy (but also the Manufacture maneuver), and (2) create a new maneuver that allows players to spend Luxury/Precious Goods points, as an incentive to buy them (and a narrative reason why my feudal neighbor who's also sitting on ~100 Luxury/Precious Goods points wants to buy my specific Luxury/Precious Goods they lack).

#2 could be a modified Allocate Resources move. So, for example, the players spends a maneuver (perhaps Trade, or just buy) to acquire some magical tomes, then next turn does a modified Allocate Resources ("Allocate Precious Resources") move where they spend the Workforce and Luxury/Precious Goods points (representing their mages learning the Tomes' secrets), but then get a bonus. To get more detailed, if one of the categories of Luxury/Precious Goods is "Concealed Knowledge" (e.g., books in a medieval setting, intelligence reports in a modern setting, alien artifacts in a future setting), the "Allocate Precious Resources" maneuver gives a bonus on a relevant future maneuver roll related to knowledge (and perhaps a permanent bonus to Realm related skills if enough of Luxury/Precious Goods points are expended, similar to the Improve maneuver).

This also allows players to spend their own Luxury/Precious Goods points, e.g. my medieval realm makes fine wine and I'm gonna expend it to increase my population's loyalty by distributing it to the population rather than selling it.

This is all very cool - I tried not to put the idea of split points too much into this book because I didn't want it to be clunky, but what you have here is interesting enough that I might adopt it somehow. Again, very cool.

[Michele]

Keep in mind that a traditional economy might well stow away wealth in improductive ways. Think of the astounding quantity of manpower and resources frozen in pyramids or moais. Status symbols, yes, but no economic yield.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Michele

Keep in mind that a traditional economy might well stow away wealth in improductive ways. Think of the astounding quantity of manpower and resources frozen in pyramids or moais. Status symbols, yes, but no economic yield.

Yeah, that's something I overlooked in my previous post. We talked about this I want to say, but I don't remember exactly what conclusion we came to. Pretty sure it was more or less this.

[benz72]

Originally Posted by Michele

Keep in mind that a traditional economy might well stow away wealth in improductive ways. Think of the astounding quantity of manpower and resources frozen in pyramids or moais. Status symbols, yes, but no economic yield.

Perhaps not immediate economic benefit, but I think a fair percentage or Earth's population would be less than absolutely certain about the characteristic differences of Egypt, Libya, Eritrea and Sudan if it weren't for things like pyramids.
Heck, a substantial portion of the modern Egyptian economy is from big piles of rock.
From Wiki
"Tourism is one of the leading sources of income, crucial to Egypt's economy. At its peak in 2010 the sector employed about 12% of workforce of Egypt[1] serving approximately 14.7 million visitors Egypt, and providing revenues of nearly $12.5 billion.[2] as well as contributing more than 11% of GDP and 14.4% of foreign currency revenues.[3]"

[benz72]

To pull in concepts from Civ, There may be a way to describe prestige projects that have economic effects in this system, and they sure as heck should consume a lot of resources (otherwise there really isn't much prestige)
Think of it as the realm equivalent of peacock feathers if you will.