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Old 09-14-2015, 05:58 AM   #1
Anders
 
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Default Building Immunity: Fire

Could you build an immunity to fire as Insubstantial (Flames only, -80%)?
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Old 09-14-2015, 06:49 AM   #2
Bruno
 
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Default Re: Building Immunity: Fire

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anders View Post
Could you build an immunity to fire as Insubstantial (Flames only, -80%)?
I would not allow the build with just that limitation; you get rid of the biggest problem of Insubstantial (being unable to do much to the real world while being invulnerable) while retaining a big benefit out of it. I also strongly question the value of the limitation.

The "Invulnerability" build from powers requires
Affect Substantial, +100%; Can Carry Objects, Heavy, +100%; Partial Change, +100%; Reflexive, +40%; Unconscious Only, -20%; Uncontrollable, -10%

That gives a cost of 328. I don't like "Invulnerability" of any sort, but if I were allowing it I'd say "Invulnerable" is a new advantage worth 330 points, and you can apply the Limited Defense limitation from DR to it.
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Old 09-14-2015, 06:57 AM   #3
malloyd
 
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Default Re: Building Immunity: Fire

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Originally Posted by Anders View Post
Could you build an immunity to fire as Insubstantial (Flames only, -80%)?
If you were to allow it at all it's a limited defense, and by no stretch of the imagination will flames qualify for -80%. Water, which is certainly not more common as an attack than flames, only gives you a -40%.

Also, if you have Insubstantial (only some things) there are by definition substantial things you can interact with, so you must take the +100% Affects Substantial enhancement, which will drive up the cost a good deal.

I personally am always very skeptical of limited Insubstantiality, but Insubstantial (Flames only -40%, Affects Substantial +100%, Can Carry Objects +100%) [208] isn't really an abusive cost for immune to fire while still being able to interact with matter more or less normally. You don't need a ridiculous lot of DR to be immune to fire really. Real fires rarely inflict more than 20 or 30 hp per turn. Assuming energy weapons scale about the same way they did for when we had rules for their power consumption, bathing in plasma so hot it destroys fires (i.e. so hot combustion products can't form) is only around 150 hp/turn.
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Old 09-14-2015, 06:59 AM   #4
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Default Re: Building Immunity: Fire

Ok. Just a thought.
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Old 09-14-2015, 07:03 AM   #5
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Default Re: Building Immunity: Fire

If you drop most of the bonuses, you could get someone who can't get hurt by flame (still affected by heat; take Temperature Tolerance), but also can't stamp out a fire, or smother one with bare hands (a staple for some fire-immune folk). Also can't interpose themselves to block a flame jet headed at someone else. Blowing out a candle might work...

Last edited by Culture20; 09-14-2015 at 07:13 AM.
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Old 09-14-2015, 07:13 AM   #6
Culture20
 
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Default Re: Building Immunity: Fire

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Originally Posted by malloyd View Post
Insubstantial (Flames only -40%, Affects Substantial +100%, Can Carry Objects +100%) [208] isn't really an abusive cost for immune to fire while still being able to interact with matter more or less normally.
If you're only insubstantial to X (steel, water, fire) do you even need Affects Substantial and Can Carry Objects to affect or carry any non-X items?
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Old 09-14-2015, 07:24 AM   #7
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Default Re: Building Immunity: Fire

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Originally Posted by Culture20 View Post
If you're only insubstantial to X (steel, water, fire) do you even need Affects Substantial and Can Carry Objects to affect or carry any non-X items?
Yes. These are inherent limitations that justify the low base price of Insubstantial, if you don't suffer them, you need to pay for them.

It might have been better to invert them - that is to make Insubstantial a 400point advantage and treat Can't Carry Objects and Can't Interact With the Physical World both -50% limitations. That would change the costs of limited forms, but might be clearer.
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Old 09-14-2015, 07:32 AM   #8
Anaraxes
 
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Default Re: Building Immunity: Fire

Quote:
Originally Posted by malloyd View Post
If you were to allow it at all it's a limited defense, and by no stretch of the imagination will flames qualify for -80%.
True. But Insubstantial isn't only a defense. Flames Only might qualify for -40% for a purely defensive ability like DR. But Insubstantial has non-defensive uses for walking through walls, escaping bonds, and so on. Putting "Flames Only" on it also costs you most of the utility or offensive uses of the Advantage. You're not usually going to be manacled to a wall with flames or find houses and castles with walls constructed of fire. You lose more than just the defense versus non-fire; hence a bigger discount doesn't seem unreasonable.

What's the discount for Insubstantial (Defense Only)? Combine that with Flames Only and you get Immunity to Fire.
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Old 09-14-2015, 08:09 AM   #9
Bruno
 
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Default Re: Building Immunity: Fire

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
What's the discount for Insubstantial (Defense Only)?
That's the GURPS Powers Invulnerability build, which I cited above. It's a net +310%. Clearly the powers that be think that "Defensive Invulnerability (correction Insubstantiality)" is very very good.

EDIT: blar, brainfart. Wrote Invulnerability when I meant Insubstantiality. Seeing the two words over and over again I stop being able to tell between them. Anyways. The Powers build is ONLY the defensive part - it does not let you walk through walls and ETC.
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Last edited by Bruno; 09-14-2015 at 08:15 AM.
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Old 09-14-2015, 08:12 AM   #10
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Default Re: Building Immunity: Fire

Permeation (B77) says:

"... You also remain vulnerable to attacks with
the material you can pass through,
unless you purchase Damage
Resistance to such attacks."

It seems to me that a Cosmic rule exception ("you do no remain vulnerable to the material you can pass through") could cover this build.
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