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Old 05-11-2020, 01:27 PM   #1
rerednaw
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Sin City
Default Avoiding Deathtouch? (or touch spells in general?)

Since a wizard can deliver this with his staff...does this mean it can be parried?

Assuming Blocking does not work...but what about Dodge?

How to avoid 'touch' spells in general?
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Old 05-11-2020, 01:40 PM   #2
Imbicatus
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Default Re: Avoiding Deathtouch? (or touch spells in general?)

This is covered in the rules for melee spells on Magic p.11. The target can make any active defense, if the defense is successful, the spell is still held and you can attack again.
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Old 05-11-2020, 01:42 PM   #3
Imbicatus
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Default Re: Avoiding Deathtouch? (or touch spells in general?)

However, deathtouch ignores armor, so an unarmed parry or block cannot defend against deathtouch, and any attempt triggers the spell.
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Old 05-11-2020, 02:44 PM   #4
Plane
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Re: Avoiding Deathtouch? (or touch spells in general?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imbicatus View Post
However, deathtouch ignores armor, so an unarmed parry or block cannot defend against deathtouch, and any attempt triggers the spell.
M41 doesn't say that. Ignoring armor isn't the same as working like Aura or Aggressive Parry.

Despite "touch" being in the name, the wording is "must strike".
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Old 05-11-2020, 03:25 PM   #5
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: Avoiding Deathtouch? (or touch spells in general?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plane View Post
M41 doesn't say that.
M11 does, though.
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Old 05-12-2020, 05:10 AM   #6
Anaraxes
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Default Re: Avoiding Deathtouch? (or touch spells in general?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
M11 does, though.
Parry is actually the odd one out. You can't Block with a steel shield, as an "armor doesn't protect" spell goes through. You can't make an unarmed parry with a limb or hand covered in steel, because an "armor doesn't protect" spell goes through. But you can successfully Parry with a steel sword, because somehow the spell can't go through that material. Maybe spells only have an armor penetration range of an inch or so.

To clean it up, the houserule that suggests itself would be to just to say you can only Dodge versus an "armor doesn't protect" Melee spell, while Parries and Blocks involve making contact, and are thus counterproductive.
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Old 05-13-2020, 07:19 PM   #7
Plane
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Re: Avoiding Deathtouch? (or touch spells in general?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
M11 does, though.
Yipes...
If the spell is one that ignores armor, neither an unarmed parry
(even with an armored limb) nor a block can protect the target from the
spell. Even if such a defense wards off the melee attack, the spell arcs
through the target’s armor or shield and affects him.
I somehow missed this until now, they should probably call this something cooler-sounding than ignores armor like "unblockable" and "only weapons can parry it"

It just seems rude to shield users, normally they can block stuff that can't be easily parried (like fireballs/arrows) not the other way around...

Some shields are actually thicker/bigger than some weapons, after all, a reach-1 shield compared to a reach-1 dagger or something...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DouglasCole View Post
For what it's worth: Technical Grappling, p. 22


Dodge
see pp. B374-375

A successful dodge means the attack failed to connect at all. Dodging is the only way to create a “clean” miss without contact, important if you want to avoid effects transmitted by touch, such as some spells, electrical attacks, or cooties.
MA122 tho...
Not every parry involves contact. A parry against an attack on your weapon or your hand represents yanking the target out of harm’s way,
It seems like if someone is trying to use Deathtouch on your hand means you should be able to no-contact parry it, but you couldn't no-contact parry it if it was the limb (arm) rather than extremity, or a non-arm extremity like the foot.

I don't really understand why you can't unarmed parry either. You can parry a knife via grabbing the arm rather than the knife, so why not be able to do that by touching the wizard's arm instead of his "death hand".

Especially with a staff, can't you in theory parry a staff swing by reaching past the staff to hit the arm holding it? "the item must touch the subject" is a requirement for if you make it a magic item and I assume also if you use a Staff w/ a melee spell...

It's not like 'death touch' is a 'death aura' where it automatically hits anyone who otherwise attacks you (or even your arm, or even your hand) so long as the spell is active...

Conceptually doesn't it seem odd that I can bite the hand of a guy w/ Death Touch active and be fine, but if I use my shield to stop that hand from poking me, it arcs and gets me? It feels like there should be some kind of limited variant of this spell created...
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Old 05-12-2020, 04:22 AM   #8
Michele
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Udine, Italy
Default Re: Avoiding Deathtouch? (or touch spells in general?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rerednaw View Post
How to avoid 'touch' spells in general?
I suppose the same principles apply as to when you face a close-combat specialist or any enemy who's very skilled - but with a short weapon. Choose a Reach 2 weapon, for instance. Ranged weapons also work, if you hit. In any case, if you can back away, make your attack then take a step back. Wait also might work, depending on circumstances, and especially if you do have a long weapon.
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