[Basic] Terrain penalties and steps

[Gnome]

B387 says (in the box at the top) "you can move your full step (usually one hex) regardless of facing, posture, or terrain."

This creates a potentially odd situation where if you're on terrain that slows movement to the extreme (wading through waist-deep mud for example), you could have a character that moves faster with the step part of another maneuver than with a Move maneuver. Consider a character with Move 11 and a 2-yard step, on terrain that costs 6 or more movement points per yard to traverse. In a second, the character can use Move to travel one yard (not enough movement points left to travel a second yard), but the same character can take a full 2-yard step.

I bring this up because in the past I've applied terrain penalties to steps, but one of my players pointed out that the rules say otherwise, so I'm trying to understand the logic of not applying terrain penalties to steps to help me decide how to run this in the future.

Generally, when we've had this come up in game, PCs have used a lot of Extra Effort to lengthen their steps and be able to make progress while still attacking, casting spells, etc. (and faster PCs have had a big advantage).
If I default to the RAW, I expect we'll see everyone just using steps and not bothering with Move maneuvers most of the time on rough terrain.

And of course the same question can be asked about retreats, although there the RAW is less clear about the interaction with terrain (as far as I can find).

[Rolando]

If you have move 11 in terrain that cost 6x to move, you will technically have move 1 or 2 not 11, so your step will be 1... it is a way of seen it.

As everything else, a bit of GM supervision to make sure the rules comply with the setting reality is important and positive.

[kirbwarrior]

The way I hear it generally played is your movement can't go below your step with terrain penalties. If you're allowed to Move at all, you can always at least Step. The idea that someone who can run 11yds/second can manage to maneuver through mud at 2yds/second is definitely incredible, but someone who can run that fast is already incredible. In fact, someone with that much ability to maneuver might be able to run atop the mud (basically the less fantastical version of running on water).

Mind, some terrain won't give 'penalties' but change the situation entirely; If you're underwater, you don't have a movement penalty, you're using a completely different move score. If you're climbing a vertical wall, you have a different mode of movement. If you're waist deep in mud, who knows, maybe you are swimming.

I also wonder if 6+ movement points is too high for a terrain cost. If the average person can't go through it (assuming move 5), then maybe it's assumed that you can't actually Move through it and must do something differently. If I recall right, clambering onto a table costs a Move action regardless of your move score.

As for Retreat, I know it's a Step you take during a specific point in a round, but I don't remember where it is. Martial Arts might expand on it more explicitly.

[Tinman]

Originally Posted by Rolando

If you have move 11 in terrain that cost 6x to move, you will technically have move 1 or 2 not 11, so your step will be 1... it is a way of seen it.

As everything else, a bit of GM supervision to make sure the rules comply with the setting reality is important and positive.

This is how I see it too.

[Gnome]

Ok, I see the replies here are about my specific example, but I was meaning to highlight something more general, which is that steps are much, much better relative to movement when there are terrain or other movement penalties involved, simply because they don't suffer from such penalties, and so I'm trying to understand the logic of why steps don't suffer from terrain or other movement penalties in the rules.

The problem arises with characters of average Move as well as high Move. If I have Move 5 and I'm on terrain that costs 3 or more movement points per hex, then stepping is as good as moving, and I might as well make an Attack, AoD, etc.--there's simply no reason for me to use Move.
And yet my intuition is that focusing on moving should always move you more than moving while doing something else (like attacking), or should at least penalize the something else (eg. Move and Attack).

My main issue is that exempting steps from all movement penalties makes step superior to Move in many situations, especially when there are ways to get longer steps (eg. Extra Effort).

[Varyon]

It's an issue of resolution, I'd say - a character can only move in full-yard increments in a turn, with no possibility of fractional movement. You could state that once your movement rate gets below some threshold (say, if effective Move is 2 or lower) you no longer get a Step or Retreat. Alternatively, allow for fractional movement (or perhaps let those without a Step be able to gain one with Extra Effort).

Regardless, I agree with others that you should base your Step on your current movement rate - that Move 11 character should only have a 1-yard step if at or above Light Encumbrance, walking through mud, crawling, or in any other situation that drops their Move below 11.