Powerstones

[Polaris]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

Point 2 is that Bless will save (or at least lessen the effect) for _you_. It will not negate the die roll for the Crit Fail and it will especially not save your stone.

False. In GURPS, a roll that affects your gear is part of you. Your gear is considered to be part of your person, and as such bless certainly would apply.

For example, if a lucky roll sundered my sword, bless would certainly apply to negate that. The same principle applies.

-Polaris

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Polaris

False. In GURPS, a roll that affects your gear is part of you. Your gear is considered to be part of your person, and as such bless certainly would apply.

For example, if a lucky roll sundered my sword, bless would certainly apply to negate that. The same principle applies.

-Polaris

.....and your evidence for this amazing claim is what?

Many spells that would affect your person affect your gear too while other spells that would affect only your gear allow for "Special Resistance" and only work if fail a Resistance roll.

However, this is only an example of how particular spells work. It's not a general rule. I can reach out with my Staff and cast Disintegrate on a sword and there is no resistance at all. I just need to roll enough HP and that's all. It doesn't matter if you re holding it or not because that's the way Disintegrate is written.

One more thing, we don't "sunder" swords in Gurps. That's terminology from D&D 3.x. Your idea about all personal gear getting the wearer's Resistance might be too.

On to Bless now. The actual text of the Bless spell has a 1 pt Bless only moving an arrow from your heart to your arm. It certainly doesn't negate the die roll that caused the arrow to hit.

Even with 2 and 3 pts of Bless the arrow still gets fired. the final protection of the Bless only reduces or changes the effect rather than negating the firing.

Your gear only becomes part of your _character sheet_ if you pay for it as Signature Gear. Stuff bought with plain cash (even if you buy it with Wealth or trading pts for cash) is just stuff.

Even Signature Gear is not immune to destruction. The character pts you paid for it just don't vanish with the gear. The GM can destroy your Signature Gear. He just needs to arrange for an equivalent to fall into your hands relatively soon.

He'd even be within his rights to simply _refund your cp_. This is what I'd do if you were deliberately reckless with your Sig Gear. Buying stuff as Sig Gear doesn't make it indestructible.

[Polaris]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

.....and your evidence for this amazing claim is what?

Many spells that would affect your person affect your gear too while other spells that would affect only your gear allow for "Special Resistance" and only work if fail a Resistance roll.

However, this is only an example of how particular spells work. It's not a general rule. I can reach out with my Staff and cast Disintegrate on a sword and there is no resistance at all. I just need to roll enough HP and that's all. It doesn't matter if you re holding it or not because that's the way Disintegrate is written.

Really, what is the basis of that? You write your gear on your character sheet. You even pay character points for the gear that you start with (effectively your normal starting gear is 25 pts because going without any starting gear is a -25CP disadvantage).

Your carried gear is most definately part of your person. If it weren't, then MR would be useless and it's not.

One more thing, we don't "sunder" swords in Gurps. That's terminology from D&D 3.x. Your idea about all personal gear getting the wearer's Resistance might be too.

Yes you do. Read page 401 of the GURPS main rule book.

On to Bless now. The actual text of the Bless spell has a 1 pt Bless only moving an arrow from your heart to your arm. It certainly doesn't negate the die roll that caused the arrow to hit.

It definately negates the critical effect, however, and that's entirely the point here.

Even with 2 and 3 pts of Bless the arrow still gets fired. the final protection of the Bless only reduces or changes the effect rather than negating the firing.

Which is again what we are talking about.

Your gear only becomes part of your _character sheet_ if you pay for it as Signature Gear. Stuff bought with plain cash (even if you buy it with Wealth or trading pts for cash) is just stuff.

Buying stuff with cash STILL makes it part of your character because all starting wealth is part of your CP package. Signature gear is a special case.

Even Signature Gear is not immune to destruction. The character pts you paid for it just don't vanish with the gear. The GM can destroy your Signature Gear. He just needs to arrange for an equivalent to fall into your hands relatively soon.

No. The GM is obligated to replace it. It says so right in the entry under Signature Gera.

He'd even be within his rights to simply _refund your cp_. This is what I'd do if you were deliberately reckless with your Sig Gear. Buying stuff as Sig Gear doesn't make it indestructible.

It doesn't say that. Again, you are reading stuff into the rules that isn't there.

-Polaris

Edit PS: If gear (carried/attended) were not considered part of your person, then you'd have to track the damage done to each piece of gear by area effect and/or explosive attacks, you'd have to roll to hit for each piece of gear, etc etc. However, you do not do that. If you dodge the explosion, your gear does too. If an attack fails to penetrate the DR of your armor (or other defense), then nothing is damaged. Just the way it's been (and has been since TFT)

[Langy]

Here, let me quote you something again:

That is not what 'in danger' means in the English language.

'In danger' and 'thinking you are in danger' are two completely different things. Do not confuse the two. Similarly, 'in danger' and 'the possibility of danger' are not the same.

Read this over again. It does not matter if gear is part of your person or not. If you are in a dungeon or whatever, you are not 'in serious danger' unless something is actually coming out of the shadows to attack you at that time. The possibility of danger is not danger in and of itself. The rules as written do not work as you insist they do.

[Polaris]

Originally Posted by Langy

Here, let me quote you something again:



Read this over again. It does not matter if gear is part of your person or not. If you are in a dungeon or whatever, you are not 'in serious danger' unless something is actually coming out of the shadows to attack you at that time. The possibility of danger is not danger in and of itself. The rules as written do not work as you insist they do.

I'm sorry but that's not true. I can prove it's not true by showing a counter-example to what you are saying.

Suppose you have a high moutain pass in spring-time with an extreme avalanche danger. Suppose you hike across that pass anyway.

Any fool would say that you are IN DANGER, in the same way that when you cross a minefield you are IN DANGER. It's not relevant that you aren't being physically attacked or hurt at that immediate moment.

This is what in danger means at least in english. It does not mean immediate danger, and if that were the criteria for the bless spell, the spell should have said so (and it doesn't).

-Polaris

[Langy]

Sorry, but no, you are not correct. If an avalanche is actually going to happen and you are crossing the pass, then you are in danger. If you are walking across a minefield and you will step on a mine while doing so, you are in danger.

However, if you are crossing a pass and an avalanche will not happen while you are crossing it, you are in no danger. You might percieve that you are in danger, because the pass has a history of avalanches. However, unless an avalanche actually is going to occur, you aren't actually in any danger at all.

Bless is a cosmic effect. It knows if you are truly in danger or if you simply think you are in danger.

Do not mistake the perception of danger for danger itself.

[Polaris]

Langy,

So you are telling me that you aren't in danger while crossing a minefield or defusing a bomb?

EOD would beg to differ.

Sorry, but you are incorrect here.

-Polaris

Edit: In both cases, there is DANGER not just the 'perception' of danger

Edit2: There is nothing that says that Bless is a cosmic power either.

[Langy]

Edit2: There is nothing that says that Bless is a cosmic power either.

Spells, by default, are cosmic in nature. They do not use the senses or thoughts of their caster or subject unless it specifically says that they do. As such, a bless spell is 'cosmic' in that it applies to reality, not to what you percieve. Thus, perception of danger can not trigger a bless spell if no danger actually exists. The GM needs to determine if you are truly in danger at the moment the bless spell might trigger or else he isn't following the rules as written. Simply saying 'oh, you think you're in danger so it's okay' is not following the rules as written, which specify that you it only triggers if you are actually in serious danger.

[Polaris]

Originally Posted by Langy

Spells, by default, are cosmic in nature. They do not use the senses or thoughts of their caster or subject unless it specifically says that they do. As such, a bless spell is 'cosmic' in that it applies to reality, not to what you percieve. Thus, perception of danger can not trigger a bless spell if no danger actually exists. The GM needs to determine if you are truly in danger at the moment the bless spell might trigger or else he isn't following the rules as written. Simply saying 'oh, you think you're in danger so it's okay' is not following the rules as written, which specify that you it only triggers if you are actually in serious danger.

Where does it say this specifically? Under powers, IIRC "magic" is it's own category.

It also is irrelevant because I am not talking about the perception of danger vs real danger. If you are crossing a minefield, or some other equally DANGEROUS area or task then you are in danger. Saying otherwise is (sorry) IMHO pure sophistry.

If you are in a dungeon crawl and you might be ambushed at any time (enough to justify constant vigalance) than you ARE in danger.

-Polaris

[Witchking]

Lol guys...

fine entertainment though.

In most of the campaigns I have played/GM'd in we pretty much did "Bless doesn't effect casting rolls..."

Not sure if that was 1e RAW that book is at home. So throwing a missle spell yes, making a resistance roll yes, damage done by a missle spell yes, whether or not you make the critical fumble and blow yourself across the room instead of casting Lightning Bolt...not so much.

I am well aware it is not the RAW now.

Still being a mage is a DANGEROUS profession. There are pluses (fantastic power) and minuses (unlikely to die of old age in bed).

IMHO and YMMV of course...