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Old 11-13-2018, 12:16 AM   #11
David Johnston2
 
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Default Re: Cidri Genesis

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Originally Posted by Terquem View Post
I've always used a different approach

"Cidri" is more than one world, only the inhabitants don't know that yet (maybe a few upper tier scholars or wizards known, but most regular folk do not).

Moving from one world to another through a gate is indistinguishable from teleporting across any distance so those that move around using gates, think they are on a very large world.
Anyone competent at navigating by the stars would clue in. I'm tempted to argue that it should be a magical Dyson sphere around a small artificial sun that repels matter to create the illusion of gravity.
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Old 11-13-2018, 04:20 AM   #12
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Default Re: Cidri Genesis

I have not witnessed it myself, but I've been told the stars look different in the southern hemisphere than they do in the northern hemisphere.

I can only imagine that a sailor, who navigates by the same stars above her head for her entire life, who suddenly, in the blink of an eye, is below a set of stars unfamiliar to her would either first, accept that they have moved to another part of the world where the stars above are not the same, or second, moved to another world. Since measurements of longitude are practically impossible if time is not accurate while moving across distances, and latitude is generally derived from the position of the sun above the horizon in the sky relative to north or south, and with all these things changing instantaneously, north south, east west, regardless of time. The stars above would be no real help to someone who moved from New Hampshire to Perth with no way of ever going back.

Without sophisticated technology or advanced magic, it would be difficult to prove one theory over the other, wouldn't it?

and without rapid forms of physical travel, actually knowing the difference is useless. Sailing around any, "Earth" sized planet, under sail, should take years, accidentally moving to another world while at sea could be something the sailors would only realized happened if a different sun or moon rose in the sky, or the stars appeared different, but for the traveler, the water beneath the ship doesn't change, and to them it feels like they have only moved to another "place" on a very large "world"
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Old 11-13-2018, 09:57 AM   #13
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Default Re: Cidri Genesis

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Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terquem View Post
I've always used a different approach

"Cidri" is more than one world, only the inhabitants don't know that yet (maybe a few upper tier scholars or wizards known, but most regular folk do not).

Moving from one world to another through a gate is indistinguishable from teleporting across any distance so those that move around using gates, think they are on a very large world.
Anyone competent at navigating by the stars would clue in. I'm tempted to argue that it should be a magical Dyson sphere around a small artificial sun that repels matter to create the illusion of gravity.
Yes, unless the worlds they travel between are in the same (or very near) star system, and they don't track the planet positions.

However, this would only apply to people who gate or teleport between the worlds of Cidri. Even an Earth-sized world is more than enough for massive amounts of mapped terrain for one GM, with potentially nearly no one ever going to another world. And those who do go to another world of Cidri (e.g. by taking a gate to another campaign (possibly with a different GM) will tend to notice also other cosmological differences as well... just most never do, except when they change campaigns or a GM has multiple different campaign worlds linked by gates.)
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Old 11-13-2018, 10:02 AM   #14
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Default Re: Cidri Genesis

I always assumed that Cidri was created using hyper-advanced technological means, not 'magic'.

Magic was more of an unforeseen outcome of the creation process (which could have had a role in the disappearance of the Mnoren).
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Old 11-13-2018, 10:02 AM   #15
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Default Re: Cidri Genesis

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Yes, unless the worlds they travel between are in the same (or very near) star system, and they don't track the planet positions.

However, this would only apply to people who gate or teleport between the worlds of Cidri. Even an Earth-sized world is more than enough for massive amounts of mapped terrain for one GM, with potentially nearly no one ever going to another world. And those who do go to another world of Cidri (e.g. by taking a gate to another campaign (possibly with a different GM) will tend to notice also other cosmological differences as well... just most never do, except when they change campaigns or a GM has multiple different campaign worlds linked by gates.)
Which is why you must check your sword at the door of the Astrologers Guild.
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Old 11-13-2018, 10:34 AM   #16
Skarg
 
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Default Re: Cidri Genesis

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Originally Posted by Terquem View Post
I have not witnessed it myself, but I've been told the stars look different in the southern hemisphere than they do in the northern hemisphere.

I can only imagine that a sailor, who navigates by the same stars above her head for her entire life, who suddenly, in the blink of an eye, is below a set of stars unfamiliar to her would either first, accept that they have moved to another part of the world where the stars above are not the same, or second, moved to another world. Since measurements of longitude are practically impossible if time is not accurate while moving across distances, and latitude is generally derived from the position of the sun above the horizon in the sky relative to north or south, and with all these things changing instantaneously, north south, east west, regardless of time. The stars above would be no real help to someone who moved from New Hampshire to Perth with no way of ever going back.

Without sophisticated technology or advanced magic, it would be difficult to prove one theory over the other, wouldn't it?

and without rapid forms of physical travel, actually knowing the difference is useless. Sailing around any, "Earth" sized planet, under sail, should take years...
Yes.

Also, if on a world with a much larger diameter (somehow... a hollow planet requires a lot more super-explanation than a natural solid one) the visible effect on the stars would be reduced in proportion with the difference in circumference.

So if Cidri were all one huge world that can hold all the campaigns of all the GMs who will ever map campaigns and more... then the effect of surface travel on the visible stars would be extremely small, because it would be nearly impossible to travel any significant fraction of the planet's size without using a gate.

Navigating by the stars would only let you get your bearing, but not your change in position by surface travel.


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Originally Posted by Terquem View Post
... accidentally moving to another world while at sea could be something the sailors would only realized happened if a different sun or moon rose in the sky, or the stars appeared different, but for the traveler, the water beneath the ship doesn't change, and to them it feels like they have only moved to another "place" on a very large "world"
This is a nice interesting possibility to add mystery to ocean travel... and I've included similar phenomena...

However it seems to me that in many ways this would require a very different sort of gate:

* The gates have to be large enough to transport entire ships.
* The gates have to be numerous enough that there's much chance of any ship ever happening to accidentally hit one while in the middle of nowhere so far from land that none is in sight.
* The gates have to either have rules to not transport birds and fish, or to not have much/any chance of breakdown when they transport things.
* Either the places they gate between need to be aligned so that they are synchronized in day/night cycle, and/or the gate rules only transport ships in overcast/foggy weather at times when there will be no noticeable changes in the situation.
* The bar for "no noticeable changes" seems to me would be extremely low in most cases. Even in similar sea conditions, the effect of instantly teleporting into different water would cause a ship to lurch suddenly, and any difference in air temperature and wind direction would be noticeable, as would any position changes of clouds, waves, birds, etc. Becalmed in heavy fog with identical brightness might work, though.
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Old 11-13-2018, 11:39 AM   #17
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Default Re: Cidri Genesis

Some trade routes depend on the annual migration of the Gate Whales.

These critters don't eat people, they just lazily drift along in ship wakes as they rest up for their jumps.
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Old 11-14-2018, 03:49 PM   #18
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Default Re: Cidri Genesis

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Originally Posted by TippetsTX View Post
I always assumed that Cidri was created using hyper-advanced technological means, not 'magic'.

Magic was more of an unforeseen outcome of the creation process (which could have had a role in the disappearance of the Mnoren).
Why? More importantly, what's the difference? "Technology of a significantly advanced state is indistinguishable from magic."
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Old 11-14-2018, 05:59 PM   #19
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Default Re: Cidri Genesis

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And in their power, they built Cidri. How? We don’t know. Where? Good question. It orbits the Sun where Earth would be – if there was an Earth in that universe. No one today knows for sure even what Cidri is. Certainly no ordinary planet. Cidri is big. No complete map of its surface is known. The standard work, compiled two hundred years ago by the Imperial College of Cartographers at Predimuskity, shows 48 continents (defined as land masses of over 2,000,000 square miles); five of these are in excess of 25,000,000 square miles. Almost half the known surface of Cidri is covered with water; most of its seas are dotted with islands.
Since considering Cidri as one BIG world orbiting where Earth would be located really makes the physics of itself and the other orbiting bodies of the Solar system hard to rationalize, I've envisioned it as really a series of Earth-like bodies in multiple dimensions synchronized and joined by gates.

The Mnoren linked these bodies in such a way that no one has ever discerned that it is not one world. Then again maybe it is one extremely large, earth-like world spread throughout multiple dimensions. The Mnoren were masters of space and time weaving worlds together as easily as we weave cloth.
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Old 11-14-2018, 06:38 PM   #20
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Default Re: Cidri Genesis

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Why? More importantly, what's the difference? "Technology of a significantly advanced state is indistinguishable from magic."
True, but for me there's always been a line (subjective as it may be) between what is achievable thru high-concept science and technology vs. magic. I always imagined the Mnoren's power to be primarily based on the former and while they must have an awareness of magic, I thought it might be interesting from a story standpoint if magic ultimately turned out to be their 'Achilles Heel'.
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