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Old 02-11-2010, 02:27 PM   #41
Anders
 
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Default Re: The cost of Zeroed

Can people with Zeroed have a Reputation? Or is that a taboo trait?
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Old 02-11-2010, 02:32 PM   #42
David Johnston2
 
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Default Re: The cost of Zeroed

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Originally Posted by Asta Kask View Post
Can people with Zeroed have a Reputation? Or is that a taboo trait?
I don't see any reason why they can't have one. Zeroed interferes with record keeping, not word of mouth. It would be a mysterious reputation of course.
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Old 02-11-2010, 03:10 PM   #43
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Default Re: The cost of Zeroed

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Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
Do realize that Zeroed isn't meant to be an initial condition that wears off the first time somebody takes your picture. It assumes maintenance, and some off-screen means of achieving that. You're Zeroed now and, a few weeks later when your picture shows up again, you're still Zeroed because whatever means made you Zeroed in the first place nuked the records. That's how it works.

Those whose worlds don't assume forces powerful enough to wipe out arbitrarily secure records shouldn't use Zeroed. Neither should gamers who just want to be mysterious Man With No Name types. If you're simply somebody who starts play with no identity and gradually builds up a permanent record, you're not Zeroed. You have something more akin to Zeroed as a one-use advantage (1/5 cost, 2 points, like Favor), if not just a perk.

Zeroed is for people who work for the MIBs . . . or have a backdoor into SkyNet . . . or possess supernatural abilities that completely transmute them every sunset . . . or serve Oblivius, God of Nothingness. It's an active trait. It isn't just an Unusual Background.
That's exactly what I thought it should be. Good to know my interpretation of how I thought it was was wrong. :)
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Old 02-11-2010, 05:03 PM   #44
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Default Re: The cost of Zeroed

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Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
Do realize that Zeroed isn't meant to be an initial condition that wears off the first time somebody takes your picture. It assumes maintenance, and some off-screen means of achieving that. You're Zeroed now and, a few weeks later when your picture shows up again, you're still Zeroed because whatever means made you Zeroed in the first place nuked the records. That's how it works.

Those whose worlds don't assume forces powerful enough to wipe out arbitrarily secure records shouldn't use Zeroed. Neither should gamers who just want to be mysterious Man With No Name types. If you're simply somebody who starts play with no identity and gradually builds up a permanent record, you're not Zeroed. You have something more akin to Zeroed as a one-use advantage (1/5 cost, 2 points, like Favor), if not just a perk.

Zeroed is for people who work for the MIBs . . . or have a backdoor into SkyNet . . . or possess supernatural abilities that completely transmute them every sunset . . . or serve Oblivius, God of Nothingness. It's an active trait. It isn't just an Unusual Background.
Awesome. That answers the bulk of my questions on the trait.

It seems then that having a good ID source (whether its a Forgery skill or contact, a Patron, etc.) is a staple for someone who's Zeroed in an ID-important society. In many societies, not having records is illegal or at least grounds for suspicion. If you get pulled over (or try to get through airport security or whatever) and you don't have a valid ID, you can be brought in and scrutinized. Maybe they let you go scratching their heads (assuming civil rights) and as you're leaving your god/agency wipes out any record of you're being there. But it still took a big chunk out of your day that wouldn't be lost w/o the advantage. And now you're on people's minds.

Maybe a -50% limitation could be "Requires Maintenance" meaning that you're Zeroed but every time you need to re-wipe your records, you need to contact the hacker/god/whoever and pay some $$ or do a favor or something(some info could leak out in the mean time too). So for 5 points, you get what many of us thought the advantage was in the first place. And for 2 points, you get what others of us thought (you start with no records but there's nothing stopping you from getting them). A perk version could be that you can't maintain it (like the 2 point version) and some record of you is out there somewhere already (but it's relatively hard to get, not in the normal system, etc.).

If frequent record wiping is a part of the advantage, maybe a suitable enhancement (maybe Cosmic +200%?) could even wipe minds to some extent. It wouldn't wipe the whole memory, just personal records like "I just can't seem to remember what that guy looked like." "Guy?! Wasn't that a chick?" "Wait, what did she say her name was?" "I guess he was about average size...then again maybe he was big...er no, I think he was small."
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Old 02-11-2010, 05:12 PM   #45
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Default Re: The cost of Zeroed

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Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
Do realize that Zeroed isn't meant to be an initial condition that wears off the first time somebody takes your picture. It assumes maintenance, and some off-screen means of achieving that. You're Zeroed now and, a few weeks later when your picture shows up again, you're still Zeroed because whatever means made you Zeroed in the first place nuked the records. That's how it works.

Those whose worlds don't assume forces powerful enough to wipe out arbitrarily secure records shouldn't use Zeroed. Neither should gamers who just want to be mysterious Man With No Name types. If you're simply somebody who starts play with no identity and gradually builds up a permanent record, you're not Zeroed. You have something more akin to Zeroed as a one-use advantage (1/5 cost, 2 points, like Favor), if not just a perk.

Zeroed is for people who work for the MIBs . . . or have a backdoor into SkyNet . . . or possess supernatural abilities that completely transmute them every sunset . . . or serve Oblivius, God of Nothingness. It's an active trait. It isn't just an Unusual Background.

Awesome, that's much more useful than I thought.
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Old 02-11-2010, 07:27 PM   #46
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Default Re: The cost of Zeroed

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Awesome, that's much more useful than I thought.
It certainly isn't written as if it were meant to be played that way, but then again it is almost never taken in isolation; there is almost always an underlying ability or social relationship from which it springs, but it still has to be paid for.
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Old 02-12-2010, 01:01 AM   #47
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Default Re: The cost of Zeroed

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Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
Do realize that Zeroed isn't meant to be an initial condition that wears off the first time somebody takes your picture. It assumes maintenance, and some off-screen means of achieving that. You're Zeroed now and, a few weeks later when your picture shows up again, you're still Zeroed because whatever means made you Zeroed in the first place nuked the records. That's how it works.
That seems to contradict the way the advantage is written as it goes to some lengths to explain how it must be maintained, but doesn't say anything about it being persistent.
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Old 02-12-2010, 01:52 AM   #48
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Default Re: The cost of Zeroed

Personally I think the best example of Zeroed is in the new Human Target show. He actively works to make sure his picture does not show up anywhere and he has friends in high places the let him know when his fingerprints are checked. When they are checked they show a name of John Doe and a large list of aliases. He also works more through barter and favors to stay off the system.
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Old 02-12-2010, 08:47 AM   #49
David Johnston2
 
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Default Re: The cost of Zeroed

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
That seems to contradict the way the advantage is written as it goes to some lengths to explain how it must be maintained, but doesn't say anything about it being persistent.
Now you see, I read it the other way. The fact that all it took to maintain it, is to not do things like getting a non-anonymous banking account meant to me that it was persistent.
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Old 02-13-2010, 08:00 AM   #50
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Default Re: The cost of Zeroed

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Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
Do realize that Zeroed isn't meant to be an initial condition that wears off the first time somebody takes your picture. It assumes maintenance, and some off-screen means of achieving that. You're Zeroed now and, a few weeks later when your picture shows up again, you're still Zeroed because whatever means made you Zeroed in the first place nuked the records. That's how it works.
Hm. Regrettably, the text in Characters gives absolutely no indication of this aspect, and IMO hints toward the contrary.
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