The best iteration of magic to represent Sword and Sorcery style magic (REH)

[Oggsmash]

I am making this post in hopes of saving a bit of time putting together a more coherent system for a campaign I have run off an on for years. The setting is Hyboria, and Conan has not yet taken the throne. The players are all sellswords/landless nobles/adventurers. So far, I have represented *Big* magic with rituals and things that are largely done "off camera" or scenes the players may interrupt. I also have an item that has more overt magical effects (owned by a villain). Most effects such as healing (rare, an alchemist they saved once sells them a special golden wine that he keeps secret as to his ability to make it and only sells to them so far as they know), destructive effects (items such as glass globes prepared in advance that act as fireballs, or area effect blasts, etc).

There are no magic users in the group, and no players have asked about playing the role of one. I would like a few ideas for magical systems that best suit such a setting. I like the magic system for GURPS, but I do not feel it is a great fit for the setting. I have the Conan Gurps book, GURPS Magic, and I have recently begun reading Thaumatology. As mentioned I am sure I have the resources to come up with a few good systems (that can fit with the culture or area they are used in) but it would be a very good time saver if anyone here has used existing materials to come up with a system or has suggestions to point me in the right direction.

[Emerikol]

I'd definitely make a lot of the magic rituals. You might allow for low key magic that is melee based. So a wizard that can touch someone and kill them. I also think control magic would be flavorful for conan. Basically look at each spell and ask the question would a bystander know for sure that magic had happened. If not then I'd be tempted to allow it. If only close up and it might be explained away then allow it but limited.

I've often wondered if a magic system based on secrecy might be cool. So the more witnesses the less effective magic is in the game. Like -1 per pair of eyes. That includes allies. Such a system would naturally lead to wizards doing "secret" rituals alone in hidden places.

Conan though isn't quite that bad. I was thinking of Mages in the Vampire game setting. I'd just ban magic that was flashy in terms of big boom. I'd make insidious magic even more powerful.

[Stormcrow]

It seems to me that normal magic, but always requiring ceremonial magic, and restricting which spells are available to which wizards, fits Hyboria, and swords & sorcery more generally, very well. You won't be throwing fireballs at your enemies, but you can take the time to curse them or magically spy on them, etc.

If there's a spell effect you don't like, just don't allow that spell. If there's a spell effect that only certain kinds of wizard use, don't allow other kinds to have that spell.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Oggsmash

I have the Conan Gurps book, GURPS Magic, and I have recently begun reading Thaumatology. .

When you get to Path/Book Magic in Thaumatology see if that meets your needs.

The alchemical throwing stuff can be gotten from regular Alchemy in Magic and/or the equipemnt section from Dungeon Fantasy.

[DangerousThing]

I'd go with GURPS Thaumatology: Sorcery.

This would allow you to create almost any effect you can think of, and make it either a common spell or unique to one or more individuals.

One advantage of the system is that it allows you to improvise small spells.

[Polydamas]

Originally Posted by Oggsmash

There are no magic users in the group, and no players have asked about playing the role of one. I would like a few ideas for magical systems that best suit such a setting. I like the magic system for GURPS, but I do not feel it is a great fit for the setting. I have the Conan Gurps book, GURPS Magic, and I have recently begun reading Thaumatology. As mentioned I am sure I have the resources to come up with a few good systems (that can fit with the culture or area they are used in) but it would be a very good time saver if anyone here has used existing materials to come up with a system or has suggestions to point me in the right direction.

One way that Hyborean Age magic is different from magic in many games is who can use it. As in real superstition, anyone in the Hyborean Age can learn ad try some magic. Conan makes the sign of Jhebal Sag in "Beyond the Black River", and some kinky Aztecs know mesmerism in "Red Nails."

The d20 Conan had quite a good write-up of how magic works in that setting. It might be worth buying a used copy or PDF just for that.

[Oggsmash]

Originally Posted by Polydamas

One way that Hyborean Age magic is different from magic in many games is who can use it. As in real superstition, anyone in the Hyborean Age can learn ad try some magic. Conan makes the sign of Jhebal Sag in "Beyond the Black River", and some kinky Aztecs know mesmerism in "Red Nails."

The d20 Conan had quite a good write-up of how magic works in that setting. It might be worth buying a used copy or PDF just for that.

Well, I should have mentioned I have the Core rules as well as Scrolls of Skelos and several other books for that game as well (based a good deal of how I handwaved magic off of how it was presented in that game). I will check it out again for ideas I can convert over.

[Apollonian]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

When you get to Path/Book Magic in Thaumatology see if that meets your needs.

The alchemical throwing stuff can be gotten from regular Alchemy in Magic and/or the equipment section from Dungeon Fantasy.

Path/Book is also how I'd do it, with big effects being more GM fiat type things that have to be done as weird rituals with the proper astrological conjunctions, sacrifices, etc. If you keep the Adept advantage for Path magic fairly rare, but allow anyone to learn magic, you should get a nice "slow magic" feel that seems to fit.

[Polydamas]

Originally Posted by Oggsmash

Well, I should have mentioned I have the Core rules as well as Scrolls of Skelos and several other books for that game as well (based a good deal of how I handwaved magic off of how it was presented in that game). I will check it out again for ideas I can convert over.

It seems like there are five or six types of magic in the original stories by REH:

1) Mesmerism (IIRC, REH believed in this, his father was a practitioner). Expert mesmerists can kill someone with fear and illusions ("why do you have a venomous serpent wrapped about your waist?"). People with some cultural backgrounds are more susceptible.
3) Artefacts (the laser wand in "Red Nails," the Heart of Ahriman). Wizards can't make these but they often study where to find them. Often these are based on rubber science, like the giant magnets in some of the stories by later scribes or the resurrected fossils in "Red Nails."
3) Alchemy (Lotus dust, fire powder, poisons and sleeping drugs). Wizards and other people can make these. Remember that Shevatas the thief uses poison in "Black Colossus"!
4) Zelata the witch in "Hour of the Dragon" has power over animals and can summon visions. A few of the less sketchy priests in the setting probably have similar 'white magic' or 'defensive' powers.
5) Dealings with spirits from the nighted gulfs between the stars. This is dangerous and follows the principles laid down in the d20 Conan like "wizards consume what they most love" and "magic feeds magic." But Conan knows the sign of Jhebal Sag!
6) The wizards of Khitai in "Hour of the Dragon" may have had cinematic martial arts powers in addition to their artefact staves

Path/Book magic or Threshold Magic from GURPS Thaumatology might be a good fit for (4) and (5). Some of the mystics who are unnaturally strong or long-lived or perceptive might have advantages with a Pact limitation or just an Unusual Background.

I think you could use the d20 Conan magic rules to write up a GURPS Magic college or a Path/Book Magic path for each of the types and define a list of starting effects.

"Queen of the Black Coast" is another example of someone who is not a wizard doing magic. Bêlit the Queen returns from the dead out of sheer passion!

[Refplace]

As has been noted Path/Book magic is I think a good fit. Ritual Path Magic is also a good option if you prohibit Ritual Adept so casting remains a matter of minutes or longer.