Non-Block casting of Blocking Spells

[Captain-Captain]

Some Blocking spells have potential use in non-defensive situations.

ie using Blink Other to move that barbarian one or more hexes to the left, when he's on a stairwell and one or more hexes means
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Since it's not being used to block does the 'standard' skill/2 rule apply or under the circumstances would the normal skill level be applied?

[Nikolai]

Blocking spells *always* use full skill, you never halve it because a blocking spell is used as a defense. (At least I'm pretty sure that it is supposed to work like that.)

As for using Blocking spells actively on your turn, Kromm's ruling (at least for 3e) was that in that case they can't be cast instantaneously but have a time to cast of 1 second.

[DrTemp]

Originally Posted by Nikolai

Blocking spells *always* use full skill, you never halve it because a blocking spell is used as a defense. (At least I'm pretty sure that it is supposed to work like that.)

That's how I understand the rules, too.

As for using Blocking spells actively on your turn, Kromm's ruling (at least for 3e) was that in that case they can't be cast instantaneously but have a time to cast of 1 second.

Of course, if you cast them for a full action, you should then and only then be able to reduce energy cost for high skill.

[Not another shrubbery]

meh.. The cost is not balanced for using it as a regular spell. I'd say to use Teleport Other for tricks like that and leave Blink for defense.

[Toothofjustice]

The reason that you would want to use Blink Other rather than Teleport other is because Blink Other has no roll to resist!!! (unless it's in the errata) And even if the GM did say that you could only use it as a defense, simply throw a rock at him and then cast Blink Other.

[Kromm]

Game balance dictates that Blink Other has automatic resistance if used on a hostile target. That is, it can only help allies who are willing to be helped. To teleport foes, use Teleport Other.

[Ibn Sina]

About Non-Block casting of Blocking Spells, I would appreciate a little help

Kromm stated:

1) Where it would make sense to cast a given Blocking spell as a Regular spell, go ahead and do so. Think of such spells as having a casting time of "a scant second": You can (just barely!) manage to cast one a turn as a reaction (i.e., active defense), but you need a Concentrate maneuver to do so as an action . . . and if you do the latter, that's your Blocking spell for the turn, so you can't cast another one to defend yourself.

2) From Blocking Spells (Magic, pp. 12-13): "A Blocking spell . . . is the magical equivalent of a block, parry, or dodge (and often counts as one of these defenses; see the spell description for details)." The important things to note are that "often" doesn't mean "always" and that you must consult the specific spell write-up to learn the details. Those details:
• Blink: "For combat purposes, the "blink" is treated as a dodge."
• Catch Missile: "Considered a parry by the caster for combat purposes."
• Deflect Energy: "Counts as a parry for combat purposes."
• Deflect Missile: "Counts as a parry for combat purposes."
• Iron Arm: "This spell . . . is considered a parry for purposes of combat."
• Reflect Gaze: "Considered a parry by the caster for combat purposes."
• Reflex: "It is treated as an active defense, similar to Parry or Block for all practical purposes."
• Return Missile: "Considered a parry (by the caster) for combat purposes."
The rest don't count as active defenses.
Some spells aggressively point this out (e.g., Turn Blade says, "This spell does not count as an active defense itself; it may be combined with a normal parry, block, or dodge."), but that isn't necessary. If the spell doesn't say it counts as a block, dodge, or parry, then it doesn't.

So, my question is precisely about when it would not make sense to cast a given blocking spell as a regular one.

For instance, when the text of a given blocking spell states clearly that the spell counts as an active defense, just like blink spell description:

"Avoid an attack by teleporting instantly out of its way and into an open spot nearby. (...) For combat purposes, the “blink” is treated as a dodge that succeeds automatically if the spell roll is made."

By that, I´m inclined to understand that the trigger to a blink spell is the same event that triggers an active defense roll, that is, it must be cast after a prior and successful attack vs the spellcaster, not being allowed to be cast at will.

Am I wrong?

[Plane]

Originally Posted by Nikolai

As for using Blocking spells actively on your turn, Kromm's ruling (at least for 3e) was that in that case they can't be cast instantaneously but have a time to cast of 1 second.

M132's description of how Reflex'd spells work seems to align with this

A Reflexed spell may be cast as a regular action – it does not have to be cast as a defense. It takes one second to cast, regardless of the time it would normally require to cast.

Though I personally find it a very strange policy. Does the panic of being attacked somehow speed up processing? I don't see the trouble in saying "you can activate them as a free action, but you can only do it once per second".

It just leads to weird stuff like asking allies to throw pebbles at you so you can do defenses as technicalities.

Originally Posted by Kromm

Game balance dictates that Blink Other has automatic resistance if used on a hostile target.
That is, it can only help allies who are willing to be helped.
To teleport foes, use Teleport Other.

The meta of this could get strange though - like how do I form the belief (and can I be mistaken?) that it's an ally casting this on me and not an enemy?
Seems like unless we have some kind of setup spell to designate concsent for being blinked that maybe it should involve some kind of Per/IQ check?

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by Plane

The meta of this could get strange though - like how do I form the belief (and can I be mistaken?) that it's an ally casting this on me and not an enemy?
Seems like unless we have some kind of setup spell to designate concsent for being blinked that maybe it should involve some kind of Per/IQ check?

The simple solution is that Blink Other only works to blink the target somewhere they want to be blinked. If that is "not at all" then the spell doesn't work. It also prevents someone from using a defensive spell to drop someone down a well, even if the victim believes the caster has his best interests in mind.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by RyanW

The simple solution is that Blink Other only works to blink the target somewhere they want to be blinked. If that is "not at all" then the spell doesn't work. It also prevents someone from using a defensive spell to drop someone down a well, even if the victim believes the caster has his best interests in mind.

Yeah that seems simplest, the caster is just buffing them that way. Though in choosing where you want to be blinked it could also be some Per check for surroundings to notice details like "moving away from my enemy will also move me off the edge of this wall so I fall to my death" that might not be apparent in the chaos of combat.