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Old 03-17-2015, 07:00 AM   #21
evileeyore
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Default Re: Making a spear

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Originally Posted by Verjigorm View Post
The wood you use for making handles for wooden weapons is not green wood, but is instead seasoned wood that has been selected carefully. Heck, if there's any fitting to be done, the last thing you want to do is use green, sappy wood that is going to dry out, split and crack while you are using it.
How do you know that?

Is it perhaps... that you have some skill?


They person I knew who spent 3 days failing to make a simple fishing spear is not hyperbole. He'd never dealt with construction anything of wood before, but he had plenty of experience using wood products (tool handles, furniture). But no, he didn't know you needed to find a good seasoned piece of wood, or that too many crooks or a curve makes using it difficult, about finding the right thickness, how to spot the difference between seasoned and dry and brittle. Then he had difficulty just smoothing and shaping the prongs, and attaching them almost proved too much.

Did he finally make a decent(ish) fishing spear? Yes, after days of "Spear making isn't hard, after all primitives could do it!", even after discovering that survival was hard even though "primitives could do it".

It is a skill roll. Armoury/TL 0 (IQ-5). Though yeah, I'd give a +2 with a successful Survival roll (or just let them make Survival -3) for a simple all wood spear.
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Old 03-17-2015, 08:59 AM   #22
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Default Re: Making a spear

Apparently, for making fire-hardened wooden spears, you want green wood, not seasoned. Not only does that help keep the spear from burning up during the process, boiling out the sap seems to help create a varnish layer that hardens the tip further. If you're following the ancient technique of sharpening by grinding the tip against a rock rather than whittling, the stone particles embedded in the varnish add to the effect.

http://www.ancientcraft.co.uk/Projects/spear/spear.html
http://www.outdoorlife.com/blogs/sur...hardened-spear
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Old 03-17-2015, 05:06 PM   #23
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Default Re: Making a spear

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Originally Posted by otghand View Post
What skills would a TL-0 PC use to create a spear?...I also find it interesting that Survival skill addresses none of these needs.
Spear fishing is clearly a Survival skill; making a spear to hunt/trap animals for food is clearly Survival, too. I would make the PC who is making a simple fire-hardened spear a survival "tool" and probably at +5 or more (routine use) in many cases. If you have to make a spear with absolutely no tools while trying to survive in the wild, it might require a flat skill roll (stressed). As other's have said, there are a variety of other skills involved in this task -- Armoury or Machinist might be used as well, especially in making spears with stone points.
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Old 03-17-2015, 09:02 PM   #24
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Default Re: Making a spear

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Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
...
Did he finally make a decent(ish) fishing spear? Yes, after days of "Spear making isn't hard, after all primitives could do it!", even after discovering that survival was hard even though "primitives could do it".
...
I hate that bigotry. Low tech does not mean stupid.
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Old 03-17-2015, 09:35 PM   #25
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Default Re: Making a spear

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I hate that bigotry. Low tech does not mean stupid.
It's the only reason the rest of us on the survival course let him flounder and go (slightly) hungry (we had to catch or find our own food and he was determined to catch and eat a fish).

By the end of the first week Mr. Civilization Equals Intellignece was pretty damned humble. By the end of week two he had a very deep appreciation of how smart you have to be to survive with out "City Life".
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Old 03-17-2015, 10:01 PM   #26
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Default Re: Making a spear

It's a sad subset of the "everything I know is hard, while everything you know is easy." Or my problems are hard and out of my control, while yours are character flaws and whining.
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Old 03-17-2015, 10:54 PM   #27
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Default Re: Making a spear

Quote:
Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
How do you know that?

Is it perhaps... that you have some skill?


They person I knew who spent 3 days failing to make a simple fishing spear is not hyperbole. He'd never dealt with construction anything of wood before, but he had plenty of experience using wood products (tool handles, furniture). But no, he didn't know you needed to find a good seasoned piece of wood, or that too many crooks or a curve makes using it difficult, about finding the right thickness, how to spot the difference between seasoned and dry and brittle. Then he had difficulty just smoothing and shaping the prongs, and attaching them almost proved too much.

Did he finally make a decent(ish) fishing spear? Yes, after days of "Spear making isn't hard, after all primitives could do it!", even after discovering that survival was hard even though "primitives could do it".

It is a skill roll. Armoury/TL 0 (IQ-5). Though yeah, I'd give a +2 with a successful Survival roll (or just let them make Survival -3) for a simple all wood spear.
Alternately, it could be a Cultural Familiarity thing kinda like the example in the book of the TL4 knight being unable to even attempt to use Scuba gear at default because it's outside his cultural familiarity.
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