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Old 05-18-2011, 11:02 PM   #1
Infornific
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Default Fist! related question

OK, so the Fist! skill includes all unarmed combat skills and presumably at some point all the related bonuses. However, it's not clear how you determine when your Fist! skill gives you a bonus. I can see a couple of ways of determining this:

1. Fist! uses the same relative bonus as the underlying skill, so you get:

DX: +1 unarmed damage (Karate bonus)
DX+1: +1 ST in unarmed combat (Wrestling Bonus), +2 unarmed damage (Karate bonus)
DX+2: +2 ST in unarmed combat (Wrestling Bonus)

Alternately, you could look at it this way - the damage related bonuses for unarmed skills come in two levels - a small bonus when the character has invested 4 points in the skill, and a large bonus upon investing 8 points. So since Bang skills triple costs, that suggests Fist! would get all small bonuses when 12 points are invested (DX-1) and all large bonuses at 24 points (DX.) That would make Fist! a little more effective.

I lean toward the second interpretation but is there anything official on this?

Related question - if buying a crushing Striker with the limb limitation (as in GURPS Martial Arts), would you need to buy it separately for each arm, or just once for both arms?
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Old 05-18-2011, 11:32 PM   #2
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Default Re: Fist! related question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Infornific View Post
OK, so the Fist! skill includes all unarmed combat skills and presumably at some point all the related bonuses. However, it's not clear how you determine when your Fist! skill gives you a bonus. I can see a couple of ways of determining this:

1. Fist! uses the same relative bonus as the underlying skill, so you get:

DX: +1 unarmed damage (Karate bonus)
DX+1: +1 ST in unarmed combat (Wrestling Bonus), +2 unarmed damage (Karate bonus)
DX+2: +2 ST in unarmed combat (Wrestling Bonus)

Alternately, you could look at it this way - the damage related bonuses for unarmed skills come in two levels - a small bonus when the character has invested 4 points in the skill, and a large bonus upon investing 8 points. So since Bang skills triple costs, that suggests Fist! would get all small bonuses when 12 points are invested (DX-1) and all large bonuses at 24 points (DX.) That would make Fist! a little more effective.

I lean toward the second interpretation but is there anything official on this?
There will be, if you can wait <checks watch> about 12 more hours?

Quote:
Related question - if buying a crushing Striker with the limb limitation (as in GURPS Martial Arts), would you need to buy it separately for each arm, or just once for both arms?
Separately for each arm. Two striker-arms means two Strikers.
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Old 05-19-2011, 12:35 AM   #3
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Default Re: Fist! related question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty View Post
There will be, if you can wait <checks watch> about 12 more hours?
Spoilers! *waits for Thursday release*

EDIT: Not that I'm complaining, mind. :)

Last edited by Sunrunners_Fire; 05-19-2011 at 05:36 AM.
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Old 05-19-2011, 07:19 AM   #4
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Default Re: Fist! related question

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Originally Posted by Sunrunners_Fire View Post
Spoilers! *waits for Thursday release*

EDIT: Not that I'm complaining, mind. :)
Kromm leaked the fact that Pyramid 3#31 (which should be today's release) would be Monster Hunters on his livejournal.
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Old 05-19-2011, 09:53 AM   #5
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Default Re: Fist! related question

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Kromm leaked the fact that Pyramid 3#31 (which should be today's release) would be Monster Hunters on his livejournal.
Ah. I wasn't paying attention. :)
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Old 05-19-2011, 05:24 PM   #6
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Default Re: Fist! related question

And Pyramid #3/31: Monster Hunters is out now. Christopher Rice wanted to use Fist! in his treatment of TL6 "Pulp Hunters," so he asked me to vet some new rules and clarifications for it. The version you see there is intended to be the best of all worlds when it comes to unarmed combat:

1. It receives its +1 bonus at DX and its +2 at DX+1 (like Karate).
2. That bonus applies to strikes, slams, shoves, grappling ST, etc. (like Karate, Sumo Wrestling, and Wrestling).
3. It has no penalty to parry weapons (like Karate).
4. It receives the full retreat bonus, but is not penalized for encumbrance (like Boxing).

Plus it replaces every physical roll you might need to make when fighting unarmed, and a bunch of mental ones, too.
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Old 05-19-2011, 08:00 PM   #7
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Default Re: Fist! related question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty View Post
And Pyramid #3/31: Monster Hunters is out now. Christopher Rice wanted to use Fist! in his treatment of TL6 "Pulp Hunters," so he asked me to vet some new rules and clarifications for it. The version you see there is intended to be the best of all worlds when it comes to unarmed combat:

1. It receives its +1 bonus at DX and its +2 at DX+1 (like Karate).
2. That bonus applies to strikes, slams, shoves, grappling ST, etc. (like Karate, Sumo Wrestling, and Wrestling).
3. It has no penalty to parry weapons (like Karate).
4. It receives the full retreat bonus, but is not penalized for encumbrance (like Boxing).

Plus it replaces every physical roll you might need to make when fighting unarmed, and a bunch of mental ones, too.
Yeah, in my original draft I had given too few bonuses (which PK kindly pointed out) and offered me a few suggestions which eventually turned into the Fist! skill.

Personally I think the Rev. started a revolution with how he treated Wildcard! skills in Monster Hunters. Before it was simply a cost effective replacement skill, mostly worth the points, now, however, they are just plain awesome.

Now making Alan Quartermain or even a Slayer from Buffy is much easier, though I don't know if I personally would play a character with Fist! Getting that close in without something that can do cutting, impaling or piercing damage might really suck when facing certain monsters from MH3. Although I suppose Pressure Points and Pressure Secrets might make it more useful if allowed. I can see it now, Pressure Secrets to rip out a vamp's heart... :)

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Old 05-19-2011, 09:06 PM   #8
Infornific
 
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Default Re: Fist! related question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty View Post
There will be, if you can wait <checks watch> about 12 more hours?
OK, so #2 was closer to the official version.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty View Post
Separately for each arm. Two striker-arms means two Strikers.
I suspected that. It occurred to me that being able to count limbs as Strikers would be a very useful Advantage for comic book superhero type martial artists. Useful enough that it should cost accordingly.

Last edited by Infornific; 05-19-2011 at 09:07 PM. Reason: Added comments
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Old 05-20-2011, 03:02 AM   #9
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Default Re: Fist! related question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostdancer View Post
Yeah, in my original draft I had given too few bonuses (which PK kindly pointed out) and offered me a few suggestions which eventually turned into the Fist! skill.

Personally I think the Rev. started a revolution with how he treated Wildcard! skills in Monster Hunters. Before it was simply a cost effective replacement skill, mostly worth the points, now, however, they are just plain awesome.

Now making Alan Quartermain or even a Slayer from Buffy is much easier, though I don't know if I personally would play a character with Fist! Getting that close in without something that can do cutting, impaling or piercing damage might really suck when facing certain monsters from MH3. Although I suppose Pressure Points and Pressure Secrets might make it more useful if allowed. I can see it now, Pressure Secrets to rip out a vamp's heart... :)

Ghostdancer
You can get a bladed hand, and do impaling/piercing with Karate, and thus with Fist. In DF, the bladed hand is the weapon I recommend to "unarmed" martial artists, because of this.
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Old 05-20-2011, 03:11 AM   #10
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Default Re: Fist! related question

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Originally Posted by Kuroshima View Post
You can get a bladed hand, and do impaling/piercing with Karate, and thus with Fist. In DF, the bladed hand is the weapon I recommend to "unarmed" martial artists, because of this.
Okay, that could be fun. Now all I'm seeing is Vega from Streetfighter laying some smack down on vampires and werewolves.

Yay. That is a image that won't leave for a while...
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