05-13-2021, 11:25 AM | #31 |
Join Date: Aug 2018
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Re: Magery as an improvable advantage?
Although grounds for spending points to improve levels in an existing advantage might just be 'use the advantage', one other possible approach if that's considered "too accessible" might be to allow temporary access to a higher level via Extra Effort rules, and only that temporary access is grounds for buying it.
Similar rules might be used to buy enhancements: to do that perhaps you ought to have tried out that enhancement in a risky way using Temporary Enhancements first? I also like that idea for buying new advantages under a power you have: maybe first "Using Abilities at Default" to get temporary access to an advantage based on something you already have, prior to buying it outright? |
05-13-2021, 11:35 AM | #32 | |
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cambridge, MA
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Re: Magery as an improvable advantage?
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I have found, with my players, that they don't enjoy constraints on how they can spend their earned CP unless those constraints help them imagine their character or how it fits into the world. It makes total sense to everyone if I say "you can't buy psionic powers because psionics don't exist in this world," but if I say "you can't buy psionic powers because only people born with them can have those powers and you weren't born with them," the player will likely just say "couldn't I have been born with them and I just didn't know it until now?" or "couldn't the gods somehow grant my character powers?" etc. And sometimes that means they're willing to do things in-game to get the powers, like travel to the sacred mana pool or whatever, and that makes for a fun adventure. To me, it's a game, and in order to have fun my players need to feel that it's a fair game and not a rigged one. If I say "well, you should have thought of that when we started this campaign 28 sessions and 150 CP ago, it's too late now to become a psion," the player will feel like they're being hamstrung by my rules and vision, rather than those rules and vision being there to support their fun. This may partially have more to do with the kinds of games I run, which tend to be cinematic, influenced more by DnD and video games than literature and such, internally consistent to the degree that it helps us imagine what's going on but not taking great pains to explain all the details of things that happen "off-screen" unless they seem relevant to the PCs' actions. I realize your games might be more focused on literary themes and realistic character development as ends in themselves, in which case your priorities will naturally be quite different... |
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05-13-2021, 11:43 AM | #33 | |
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
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Re: Magery as an improvable advantage?
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I have not said, and do not intend to say, that there's anything wrong with the way you do things; it's just that it wouldn't suit me, because my tastes run to other sorts of play. The only point I'm trying to make is that there ARE different tastes in this area. And it seems that we do actually agree that that's so.
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05-13-2021, 12:29 PM | #34 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Buffalo, New York
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Re: Magery as an improvable advantage?
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GURPS MAGIC predates all of 4e's design philsophy. All of the GURPS MAGIC Spells, save for duration type, are almost identical to their 3e version counterparts. What is being done is essentially a retcon of original rules to the new way rather than anything else. Extra effort to improve one's magic aptitude even temporarily, draws on the same currency as casting a spell - ie, fatigue. If a player proposed an all gain no pain process for improving an inborn trait, I'd smile and say "sure" knowing that they will try and I will say "nice try, but you didn't reach the threshhold for getting new magery levels. Now, if they said instead... "A crit success achieves what I am trying for, a crit failure results in LOSING a level of magery" Well, then I'd have no REAL issue with trying to adapt the extra effort. But - using my "Quanta 1, Quanta 2, and Quanta 3" style metaphysics concept... If you're stuck being able to use only quanta 1 "threads" for manipulating reality via magic, but instead, you opt to try for Quanta 2 energies to produce a quanta 1 result - I could see that as making sense. If you further stated that all attempts to use a quanta energy level you're not suited for, and any failure trying this is a critical failure (much like using magic in a mana high zonen) - then I could EASILY see it working in that fashion. I might even go the route of - with my usually miserly way of limiting any increase in advantages or skills by 1 point per adventure, say after 10 such attempts "Ok, you can NOW consider yourself capable of using Magery 2 safely". In fact, thanks to your input - I think I may have a set of workable rules for permitting a player character to improve their Magery in play. I will also likely limit to a one time improvement. This means that you can improve from Magery 0 to Magery 1, but not to Magery 2. Now, what happens when you get a crit failure actual while attempting this? Hmmm. That's when Magery gets reduced by 1 temporarily, with rolls every X time period until you either recover, or lose it permanently (say, a failure against a given stat by 3 or more points?). Hmmm. I'll have to think about this and do a write up later on. So, thank you for the idea. |
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05-13-2021, 01:45 PM | #35 | |
Join Date: Oct 2007
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Re: Magery as an improvable advantage?
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As a general rule 4E only requires a plausible explanation for spending points on anything, whether that's buying off/reducing a Disadvantage, a Stat increase, a new Skill/Advantage or improving a Skill/Advantage. While most settings likely won't (or shouldn't) allow a player to just add a new limb by spending enough points, the GURPS 4E rules do not disallow it. |
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05-13-2021, 02:02 PM | #36 | |
On Notice
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Sumter, SC
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Re: Magery as an improvable advantage?
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Also the rule was flawed as points effectively "disappeared" if attributes were increased during play. To me it felt like that 1500 gp/level requirement in D&D1 - an unneeded impediment to character development.
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05-13-2021, 03:18 PM | #37 | |
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Central Europe
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Re: Magery as an improvable advantage?
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I would have to research the rest to say anything intelligent about them.
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05-13-2021, 03:45 PM | #38 | |
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Re: Magery as an improvable advantage?
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05-13-2021, 04:49 PM | #39 | ||
Night Watchman
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Cambridge, UK
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Re: Magery as an improvable advantage?
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The Path of Cunning. Indexes: DFRPG Characters, Advantage of the Week, Disadvantage of the Week, Skill of the Week, Techniques. |
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05-13-2021, 05:09 PM | #40 |
Join Date: Jan 2015
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Re: Magery as an improvable advantage?
I only used basic magic for a short while but while I did, I allowed improving it normally in play. It was a simple way for mages to get better than increasing their IQ to Einstein level (and Will/Per with it...) or "wasting" points improving individual spells.
Besides, DF allows characters to improve talents so I don't see why not treat Magery as magical talent and allow it to be improved as well. Maybe doing so makes it easier to abuse magic, but that's not my experience. For fluff, I'd just call it magical attunement (not!quintessence) and be done with it. You cast a lot of spells, your attunement strengthens. If you don't it weakens. Just like a "magical muscle". |
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extra effort, improvement through study, magery, magery 0 |
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