How good Vision does Legolas have?

[Anders]

His best feat is being able to count the number of riders in the Rorrihim, tell what color their hair was, and distinguish their leader and how he was taller than most of them. He was doing this from a distance of 5 leagues or 17 miles while standing on a hill. He also brushes this off like it wasn't a hard task.

So... what's that in GURPS terms?

[Varyon]

Honestly, Middle Earth elves probably use Long-Distance Modifiers for their vision (and possibly other senses as well); I believe GURPS Powers: Enhanced Senses has rules to make your senses follow that progression. 5 leagues away would be a -5 to Vision in that case (rather than the -25 or -26* you'd be dealing with for normal Vision). Combined with the +10 for them being In Plain Sight, that puts him at a net +5, so it's no surprise he's able to make out a good deal of detail with no difficulty.

*5 leagues is 30380.6 yards, which would typically round up to 50,000, for -26, but I'd be inclined to round it down to 30,000, for -25.

[Anders]

That would be 10 points, which is very reasonable.

[RyanW]

17 miles is a range modifier of -25.

Let's say he had an effective skill of 12+, and got a +10 for picking out fairly obvious details (I'm pretty sure I could reasonably estimate numbers and tell hair colors, and pick out the tallest members and the insignias specifically made to be visually distinguishable in battle*, of a group standing 90 meters from me).

So he's got an effective Observation skill of 27+, after accounting for Acute Vision, Telescopic Vision, and any other bonuses or penalties that might apply.

* Assuming he was roughly estimating the numbers and identifying their ethnicity based on the predominant hair color. If he said "There are six thousand, one hundred and seven riders. Four thousand and twelve of them have red hair. Their leader is in the top 12% of height among them." the modifiers should probably be reevaluated.

Also assuming he wasn't making it up, knowing his companions also couldn't see it.

[mlangsdorf]

My best guess is that a normal human could pick out those details at 100 yards or so. Legolas' high Perception, Observation skill and Acute Vision bonuses probably let him make out those details at 500 yards. After that, he's needs a x60 telescope to bring the target into focus (thanks to Varyon for translating 17 leagues into 30K yards), which means he has Telescopic Vision 6.

Telescopic Vision 6 would also explain some of the impressive feats of elvish archery - it's a little easier to hit a bird in the eye at 100 yards if you have a +6 scope attached to your eyes.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by mlangsdorf

Telescopic Vision 6 would also explain some of the impressive feats of elvish archery - it's a little easier to hit a bird in the eye at 100 yards if you have a +6 scope attached to your eyes.

Though the bonus from a scope or Telescopic Vision is limited by the accuracy of the bow.
I think the Long Range modifiers suggested earlier is the best fit here. It is unrealistic but "magic". So the magic could be a form of clairsentience that brings things closer rather than projecting senses. And I would be fine with Telescopic Vision too, just the Long Range feels more elegant a match in this case.

[whswhs]

My personal supposition has long been that just as elves can sail west on the Straight Path, they can also see on the Straight Path, so that there is no horizon for them (geometrically, instead of the horizon being a finite distance away, it's an infinite distance away). That would make it easier for Legolas to see some riders who were several leagues off. In GURPS terms I tend to think of this as a Cosmic enhancement to Telescopic Vision.

It seems poetically rather fitting to a race who live forever, and therefore have no temporal horizon ahead of them, at least not within the life of the created world.

[pawsplay]

This makes me think of:
https://www.boredpanda.com/lord-of-t...s-explanation/

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by pawsplay

This makes me think of:
https://www.boredpanda.com/lord-of-t...s-explanation/

I knew I had read the "Elves can ignore the curvature of the Earth" idea before! Thanks for that.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Varyon

I knew I had read the "Elves can ignore the curvature of the Earth" idea before! Thanks for that.

I ran a campaign that assumed that, Under the Shadow, in 2003-2004, and I think I have written about it here between now and then.