Missile Spells and casting time reduction / multiplication

[Plane]

Originally Posted by DaosusLeghki

In Delvers to Grow, there is the Heroic Spellslinger advantage. It allows you, among other things, to cast and throw a missile spell in one second.

Is that actually released yet? When I looked it up it says preorder... though I do see some reviews so maybe some backers got early release?

I figure this is probably similar to taking Compartmentalized Mind with limitations of it only applying to spells, or only applying to missile spells, being a kind of limitation.

I'm just talking about the standard rules though: time reduction not applying to blocking/missiles just seems like maybe it had been noted only because blocking can't be reduced anymore anyway (it's not even a single concentrate it's an active defense) and missiles are already at the minimum time (1 second)

But maybe it overlooked (despite being on same page) the Alternate Magic Rituals option of taking x2 time to get +1 skill, in which case a base time of 2 seconds COULD be halved to one second.

T38's Spell Defaults also has doubled casting time, so if you were doing both (using double time for +1 on a Spell Default) a missile spell would take 4 seconds to create, meaning that we would have a place where 1/2 or 1/4 casting time could be relevant if legalized.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Plane

I

I'm just talking about the standard rules though:

B) the Alternate Magic Rituals option

T38's Spell Defaults also has doubled casting time, so if you were doing both .

No, you're not talking about the standard rules. You're messing around with multiple optional rules and trying to see if you can use them all at the same time. Maybe even including the standard rules some of them are intended to replace.

Standard Magic Rituals and Alternate Magic Rituals are an either/or. That's why one of them is an "alternate".

Perhaps you've never seen the old quote from Dr Rotwang? He said "Gurps is likea cow. Don't try and eat the whole thing at once. Take what you need and leave the rest.".

[Emerikol]

Originally Posted by Varyon

I believe there's a similar option presented in Basic Set, but which bases the penalty off of how many prerequisites the spell has rather than how "useful" it is. It's more accessible as a quick-and-dirty way to assess the penalty, but yours is probably more useful (but also puts more work on the shoulders of the GM).

As for realism... it's magic. Who's to say how it works, other than the GM?

I agree but if you make spells that seem to do as much "work" but aren't as useful to adventurers easier to cast it doesn't feel right. I don't care in many cases but that is my two cents.


On other notes:
I think I'd always say a spell takes 1 second to cast no matter what. So no matter your skill you can't reduce it to below one second. Maybe the gestures or words take that long at a minimum. With that rule I'd be fine with all spells being treated equally.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

Standard Magic Rituals and Alternate Magic Rituals are an either/or. That's why one of them is an "alternate".

I think M9 is only supposed to change 1/3 of M8, the first "Rituals" entry.

The other two (Time and Cost) I assume still used the same rules.

Skill 9 or less (doubled casting time) for example should still multiply 1 second to 2 seconds, so in theory someone with a skill 5 fireball might opt to spend 4 seconds casting it for a higher chance of success (skill 6).

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Plane

Skill 9 or less (doubled casting time) for example should still multiply 1 second to 2 seconds, so in theory someone with a skill 5 fireball might opt to spend 4 seconds casting it for a higher chance of success (skill 6).

Only if his GM is using that optional/alternate rule.

Also only if he's bothering with ridiculous characters. To go as low as Skill 5 with a Hard Spell requiores someone with a Magery+IQ of 7. Note that this has to be IQ 6 and Magery 1. If you try and make an IQ 5 character who has Magery 2 he won't be able to learn any languages ands that would include the spoken incantations needed.

If the Spell is Fireball it cant be someone with IQ 7 and Magery 0. Such a mage would only be able put 0 energy into a fireball each second.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

As Mr. Negative notes, these are not the rules for 4e. They were the rules for 3e but were changed.

That's what I get for posting without checking the rules.

I did so much work on the 3E magic system that I forgot that the rules changed in 4E.

In such cases, allowing a Magery 3 to 5 mage to trade skill for speed, reduced energy, increased ROF, or increased damage would get abusive fast in a low-tech setting. OTOH, it would allow high tech mages to hold their own against automatic weapons.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

Only if his GM is using that optional/alternate rule.

Also only if he's bothering with ridiculous characters. To go as low as Skill 5 with a Hard Spell requiores someone with a Magery+IQ of 7. Note that this has to be IQ 6 and Magery 1. If you try and make an IQ 5 character who has Magery 2 he won't be able to learn any languages ands that would include the spoken incantations needed.

couldn't it happen during a mage's duel where they're doing IQ penalties on each other?

I'm also not sure how shock affects spellcasting... I know Low Mana -5 doesn't affect the ritual table

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by Plane

couldn't it happen during a mage's duel where they're doing IQ penalties on each other?

I'm also not sure how shock affects spellcasting... I know Low Mana -5 doesn't affect the ritual table

Actually it does, and it's the only thing that does. M8 says this explicitly.

Shock would thus affect the final effective skill for a spell cast, but would not affect what rituals the spell required at all.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Plane

couldn't it happen during a mage's duel where they're doing IQ penalties on each other?

For 2 "master" level Mages with skill-15 in most of their Spells but Magery less than 6 it would require hitting the target Mage with Drunkeness and Foolishness at max power in succession and both Spells are Resisited By Will which is usually quite high for such Mages.

Very low probability of success and not a good use of 8 FP so I'm not going to spend a lot of time worrying about rules for if/when it happens.

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

If the Spell is Fireball it cant be someone with IQ 7 and Magery 0. Such a mage would only be able put 0 energy into a fireball each second.

Aren't the spells like that "the higher of X or Magery"?

Edit: Nope, apparently not. But since Fireball requires Magery 1 anyway, it's kind of moot.