05-09-2023, 08:54 PM | #91 |
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Re: Watchdog spell and "hostile intent"
No, I haven't changed my view. I've just stopped adding tot he post count because I've recognized the futility of it. Area is still Area.
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Fred Brackin |
05-09-2023, 10:46 PM | #92 |
Join Date: Jun 2022
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Re: Watchdog spell and "hostile intent"
So rocks falling into camp from goblins above wouldn't count, because they aren't weapons therefore an outside observer wouldn't class it as hostile (presuming they couldn;t see the goblins and rocks could naturally fall).
Neither wold a geyser eruption in a an area where geyser could happen normally, or a spontaneous fire in a hot dry tinder filled forest... even if both actions were indeed from a distant spellcaster. Again, because they could be natural, and thus discounted by an outside observer. But then a group of creatures not aware of the group are hostiles, because they "always have hostile intent"? Even if they intend to cruise on by in the hallway outside which is overlapped by the spell, never knowing the PCs are camping nearby, and thus aren't actually intending hostile intent to the PCs whom they have no reason to suspect even exist? You've got, what to me is, an inconsistent line drawn in the sand. This is why I drill into these questions with GMs, and often change spells as a GM. |
05-09-2023, 11:22 PM | #93 | |
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Re: Watchdog spell and "hostile intent"
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05-10-2023, 01:03 AM | #94 | ||
Wielder of Smart Pants
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
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Re: Watchdog spell and "hostile intent"
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In fact just rewriting the spell so it follows the General Orders probably works as well as the "would a dog bark" version. Edit: My actual point, which seems to be getting lost, is merely that "crossing with hostile intent" as a phrase does not require mind-reading, and certainly can apply to hostile fire. Last edited by sir_pudding; 05-10-2023 at 03:16 AM. |
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05-10-2023, 05:32 AM | #95 | ||
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: UK
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Re: Watchdog spell and "hostile intent"
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It seems like, there are at least three plausible ways this could work out - 1) what I just said. In that case, projectiles trigger it, as would, say, a mind-controlled assassin who doesn't know she's an assassin, because somebody intended them to do the caster harm and they partake of that person's intent. Varyon might've mentioned this version. 2), for instance in a more mechanistic, "technology, but it's magic", approach to magic, it reads the mind of anyone who crosses the perimeter to check for "hostile intent", possibly extending also to things like "doesn't know there are humans there but intends to kill any humans it finds". In that case, projectiles wouldn't trigger it, since they don't have minds themselves, and the mind-controlled assassin possibly wouldn't either. This seems odd since it doesn't have any mind-reading spells as prerequisites, but prerequisites don't always make logical sense. This seems to be what Bocephus is going for. 3) it does what the name says, it observes the area (maybe it summons a spirit) and barks if it sees something that looks like an attack crossing the line, although not if it sees a threat that isn't intentional by anyone. It may or may not be able to read minds of things crossing the line sufficiently to spot an evil witch disguised as a harmless old granny. (With any mind-reading version, you could limit it to "intends to attack on this occasion, before leaving the circle again", if you want to avoid the "all-purpose traitor detector" thing).
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Looking for online text-based game at a UK-feasible time, anything considered, Roll20 preferred. http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=168443 |
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05-10-2023, 06:21 AM | #96 | ||
Wielder of Smart Pants
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
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Re: Watchdog spell and "hostile intent"
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Now as Kromm says this is up to GM interpretation etc. and I don't actually care what you do. I really only ever wanted to state that in a plain English reading, an arrow shot at me is crossing my perimeter with hostile intent, even though arrows obviously don't have volition. Movies don't have volition either, but "The intent of the film is..." is a valid critical statement. I imagine this is an idiom you may be familiar with. English, in fact, ascribes intent to all manner of inanimate objects and abstract concepts, based on the assumed aim of some other person or persons. "The intent of the policy ...", "This rule is intended to...", "The use of color here demonstrates the intent to...". In a military sense, yes, "hostile intent" is a thing. As I stated earlier my own rules of engagement on combat deployment were literally: "Positive identification of hostile action or hostile intent". I doubt that my command believed that Marines possess telepathic powers; so they likely thought we would use a common sense method of determining intent. Such as if they are aiming a weapon at us, then they are hostile. Quote:
Last edited by sir_pudding; 05-10-2023 at 10:51 AM. |
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05-10-2023, 07:39 PM | #97 | |||
Join Date: Jun 2022
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Re: Watchdog spell and "hostile intent"
Didn't say you did, just indicated I seem to be the only one who disagrees with that view. Especially when at least one other spell that actually says "perimeter" and two others do not identify what happens within the interior and it makes no sense for the interior to be treated as the boundary is (Force Dome and Utter Dome), thus indicating "Area isn't always 'Area'".
To me, sure, Area generally means Area, however there are a small handful (maybe 10ish, so a double handful) of spells where the spell's description makes it clear that they don't work as normal area spells, and thus cannot be treated as automatically working like a normal Area spell. Quote:
What if the PCs are "home invaders" (as often they are in D&D DF/RPG) and the residents have no prior hostility with the PCs and no reason to suspect someone is sleeping in their beds and has eaten their porridge? Does Goldiwarlocks wake up when the bears come home and cross her Watchdog's boundary? Does it trigger when Baby sees his bowl is empty and feels his belly grumble (presuming an Area is Area for argument's sake)? Quote:
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Personally, 'vanilla' Magic has always felt mechanistic (nice word - I tend to use 'scientific', but mechanistic is better) to me. Spells work in rather prescribed ways, there is no inherent religious or spiritual requirements. Of course if the group wanted magic to work that way, it's an easy enough change. But generally when I'm planning to run a spiritual/religious magic system, I prefer RPM/Energy gathering or Incantation/Effects Shaping these days. |
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