Cars and TL?

[Ragabash Moon]

Okay, this is a sort of two-part question, first part is more basic GURPS rules, but I am putting it here cause this is more how to change it in GCA4.

So, pretty much most cars are listed as TL7 in the book, but really I think especially high end modern cars being all digital displays, why aren't they TL8 now?

So then to the GCA4 part... since I think they should be TL8 (or at least cars like the Audi R8 Spyder 4.2 Quattro), how do I change my customized sports car to say TL8 instead of TL7? Changing it in the description where it lists out the stats works, but it still says the following...

Audi R8 Spyder 4.2 Quattro (TL7;)
Description: TL:8 Skill:Driving/TL (Automobile) ST/HP:57 Hnd/SR:+2/4 HT:10f
Move:15/147* Lwt:1.8 Load:0.4 SM:+3 Occ:1+1 DR:4 Range:500 Locations: GW4

[roguebfl]

First the TL in catalogs refer to when they first become common and compariable with minor tweaks can still be around and common at later TL so such that they don't result in TL difference penalties in their use.

secondly the TL8 additions to cars might effect the repair and maintenance of modern cars however they don't significantly impact the the basic operations sach that someone with Drive(Automobels)/TL7 would at worse suffer Fimialirty penities Drive a TL8 car

[Ragabash Moon]

Originally Posted by roguebfl

First the TL in catalogs refer to when they first become common and compariable with minor tweaks can still be around and common at later TL so such that they don't result in TL difference penalties in their use.

secondly the TL8 additions to cars might effect the repair and maintenance of modern cars however they don't significantly impact the the basic operations sach that someone with Drive(Automobels)/TL7 would at worse suffer Fimialirty penities Drive a TL8 car

Aaaah okay, that does kind of make sense.

So then though, even if I don't make the change, how WOULD I change it in GCA4?

[Armin]

Some of the vehicles in Basic Set are noted as TL:8 (SUV and Luxury Car, for example), so I'm not sure what you're seeing that's a problem; obviously some of the data agrees with you.

From what I see, no cars are tagged with the actual tech level, so all the TL notes are simply in the name of the vehicle itself. So if your car says it's name is Audi R8 Spyder 4.2 Quattro (TL7;) then the (TL7;) part is the name extension. Just edit it like any other name.

If you want to change the data file, in addition to changing the description of the vehicle to include TL:8, you might want to change the techlvl() tag to techlvl(8). That won't affect anything inside GCA, but IIRC is used for marking in what TL things became available so that they can be removed by the data file that exists for that purpose.

[Ragabash Moon]

Originally Posted by Armin

Some of the vehicles in Basic Set are noted as TL:8 (SUV and Luxury Car, for example), so I'm not sure what you're seeing that's a problem; obviously some of the data agrees with you.

From what I see, no cars are tagged with the actual tech level, so all the TL notes are simply in the name of the vehicle itself. So if your car says it's name is Audi R8 Spyder 4.2 Quattro (TL7;) then the (TL7;) part is the name extension. Just edit it like any other name.

If you want to change the data file, in addition to changing the description of the vehicle to include TL:8, you might want to change the techlvl() tag to techlvl(8). That won't affect anything inside GCA, but IIRC is used for marking in what TL things became available so that they can be removed by the data file that exists for that purpose.

Hmm yah I guess it doesn't overall matter so much since there's not a penalty for driving a TL7 car or anything, but it's not part of the name the name was Sports Car... I just double checked and there is nothing in the extension... and the name of the car is just Audi R8 Spyder 4.2 Quattro I edited it out when I posted it above but it fully said TL7; Free_), cause I Didn't think the free part mattered. I marked it as free because it's the characters 'free car" from status level.

So again, it's not a big deal anymore, but now I'm curious where that TL7; is coming from, since I can't find it anywhere, even in the full edit window view lol must be some hidden stat on the "Sports Car" item in the datafile

[Armin]

Originally Posted by Ragabash Moon

but it fully said TL7; Free_),

Check your modifiers to see if you have another one that might be generating the TL7 part.

[Ragabash Moon]

Originally Posted by Armin

Check your modifiers to see if you have another one that might be generating the TL7 part.

No, even adding another "Sports Car" with no edits or modifiers, still says (TL7) by the name on the character sheet.

I did however switch the QuickView to the default character sheet so that it just lists the car as a possession, no stats no nothing... and there it's just the name, no TL7... so while it COULD be the phoenix character sheet itself, it still has to be getting the TL7 from somewhere, doesn't it?

I tried adding both a Sedan TL6 and an SUV to the character, and sure enough they are

SUV (TL8) and Sedan (TL 6; TL6) so the crazy part is where that TL6, TL7, TL8 is coming from if it's seemingly not there even in the "Full Edit Window"

LOL so confusing. :O

So, I'll ask tmedwards in another thread LOL maybe he can tell where it's getting the data!

[Ragabash Moon]

Or, speak of the devil, when I went to double check that he was still active on the site, I found that tmedwards is online and viewing this very thread!

[tmedwards]

Yes, I am. Give me a sec to reply. :)

[tmedwards]

Every Basic Set vehicle in GURPS Basic Set 4th Ed.--Characters.gdf includes a techlvl() tag (unsure why Armin missed them, using Full Edit maybe?), some also include the same information in their Name Extension.

Phoenix always displays the Name Extension, so if it's in there, you'll have to change/remove it as desired.

Additionally, for equipment, Phoenix adds the TL listed within the techlvl() tag to the list of trait properties. You can control whether this happens with options under the Equipment/Load-Out Options section (there are two, one each for the equipment and load-out blocks). To change/remove the listed TL itself, you must use the Advanced edit window (Full Edit is not enough as it does not show the techlvl() tag).

I'm assuming the problem here is that everyone is using the Full Edit window, instead of the Advanced edit window, and are thus missing the techlvl() tag.