[SUPERS] My Unofficial Handbook to the DC Universe

[Adversary]

Re: Commissioner Gordon, I think his +2 from Natural Copper should apply to Professional skill: law enforcement. If it isn't listed under the skills to which that talent applies, it's probably because the game doesn't list every professional skill by name.

A quibble: a number of characters have the perk Climbing Line. But Climbing Line is an exotic perk that means you can exude a climbing line, like a spider.

Maybe what you want is a clothing schtick or equipment perk.

Invisible harness: you have a streamlined climbing harness on at all times. Regardless of what you are wearing, the harness never bulges or shows. Furthermore, it is always accessible--you may clip into it with a single Ready action--and never fouls or tangles on your clothing. (If your character is carrying a rope, cord, or cable, the line is already attached to the harness.) If the character has a Skintight (perk) uniform or costume under his or her normal clothes, the harness is integrated with it.

If captured and stripped to the skin, the harness is removed. If the character gains access to any of his or her clothing and dresses, the he or she has the harness again; this takes no additional time.

[aesir23]

Originally Posted by tbrock1031

One thing I didn't see with Babs is her unofficial JLA membership. From The Titans #1:

Tempest (formerly Aqualad): I mean, who really runs the JLA nowadays?
Nightwing: Batman.
Flash: Superman.
Troia: Wonder Woman.
Lian Harper (Arsenal's daughter): Oracle.
The five founding Titans look at each other and realize, Lian's right.

On further consideration, I've decided that this is a case of the JLA having Oracle as an Ally or Contact, not vice versa. The version I settled on is anonymous to everyone except for the Birds of Prey and the Bat-Family. She may run the JLA, but she does so as a digitally altered voice or text on a screen--she can't rely on intervention from anyone except for her close friends (who are formidable enough that this arrangement works fine.) This is reflected in her new reputation.

[aesir23]

Originally Posted by Adversary

Re: Commissioner Gordon, I think his +2 from Natural Copper should apply to Professional skill: law enforcement. If it isn't listed under the skills to which that talent applies, it's probably because the game doesn't list every professional skill by name.

A quibble: a number of characters have the perk Climbing Line. But Climbing Line is an exotic perk that means you can exude a climbing line, like a spider.

Maybe what you want is a clothing schtick or equipment perk.

Invisible harness: you have a streamlined climbing harness on at all times. Regardless of what you are wearing, the harness never bulges or shows. Furthermore, it is always accessible--you may clip into it with a single Ready action--and never fouls or tangles on your clothing. (If your character is carrying a rope, cord, or cable, the line is already attached to the harness.) If the character has a Skintight (perk) uniform or costume under his or her normal clothes, the harness is integrated with it.

If captured and stripped to the skin, the harness is removed. If the character gains access to any of his or her clothing and dresses, the he or she has the harness again; this takes no additional time.

Hmmmm, I don't know when I decided that Climbing Line was the best fit for the ubiquitous bat-grappling hooks, but on rereading the perk, I see that you have a point.

I'm not sure it's even as good as the perk you suggest--it may simply be a piece of equipment that Batman invented and shares with his friends. Or possibly, No Nuisance Rolls (Gas Powered Grappling Gun never fails to find an attachment point).

[EDIT] Or, alternately, it's Perk: Climbing Line (Gadget (Can be stolen, Must be forcibly removed), Gadget (Breakable, DR 6, SM -6))...Still costs 1 point.

[Adversary]

Originally Posted by aesir23

Hmmmm, I don't know when I decided that Climbing Line was the best fit for the ubiquitous bat-grappling hooks, but on rereading the perk, I see that you have a point.

I'm not sure it's even as good as the perk you suggest--it may simply be a piece of equipment that Batman invented and shares with his friends. Or possibly, No Nuisance Rolls (Gas Powered Grappling Gun never fails to find an attachment point).

[EDIT] Or, alternately, it's Perk: Climbing Line (Gadget (Can be stolen, Must be forcibly removed), Gadget (Breakable, DR 6, SM -6))...Still costs 1 point.

My interpretation of Climbing Line is that it allows you to produce the line, but doesn't allow you to shoot it, bat-grappling-hook style. The perk gives the example of a spider. I'd say you can produce a line, tie it to something where you are, and lower yourself. Shooting the line to a point above you, a la Spiderman or Batman (which spiders cannot do as far as I know), requires some other ability. So does a line that automatically attaches itself, e.g. by hook, adhesive, or penetrating bolt.

All the perk says is that you can produce a line. You can exude rope, essentially, from your body. Whatever you can do with a rope, you can do with the climbing line--tie it to something, tie a loop in it and lasso something, attach a grapnel to it and throw it. But it's just a rope. If you want Spiderman's web-shooters or Batman's grapple gun you need more than a 1-point perk. Limited, yes, but in line with other accessory perks that give you the equivalent of a flashlight, ligher, shovel, etc.

[aesir23]

Originally Posted by Adversary

If you want Spiderman's web-shooters or Batman's grapple gun you need more than a 1-point perk. Limited, yes, but in line with other accessory perks that give you the equivalent of a flashlight, ligher, shovel, etc.

I don't know. I think that the Climbing Line and Swinging Perks were included specifically to solve this problem--and with Spiderman in mind. Swinging didn't seem appropriate to the bat family because they don't really use their grappling hooks a transportation.

Is Bill Stoddard following this thread? Maybe he can weigh in.

[Adversary]

Swinging is a form of No Nuisance Rolls, allowing you to travel by vines or by swinging on your own lines without repeated acrobatic rolls to swing or perception rolls to find attachment points, provided your skill is high enough in those skills plus "whatever skill you use to cast or shoot your swinging lines." Neither Swinging nor Climbing Line cover the actual casting or shooting of the line, the way I read them. You still need a skill for that and, I'd say, the appropriate equipment/means to use the skill. E.g. if your character uses a crossbow to fire bolts into walls with his line attached, you still need a crossbow, crossbow skill, you need to load and fire the crossbow, attach the line to the bolt...if you use a grappling hook, you need to have a hook, attach it to the line, and skill to throw it.

Nothing about Climbing Line or Swinging substitutes for any of this. Climbing Line just allows you to produce a line from your body, like a spider. Swinging allows you to do all of the above without a series of skill rolls. But you still need the skill and equipment. To me there's a big difference between "you can produce a climbing line" and "You can attach a climbing/swinging line to a point up to X distance above/away from you."

I am not sure how one would model Spiderman's firing of web-lines to swing from, or Batman's grapnel gun, in Gurps. Maybe there's a piece of gear somewhere for the latter. I just don't think either of these are covered merely by these 1-point perks.

You could always rule that in your setting, they are. They are a very common genre feature. But I think you'd need to spell out then exactly what they allow. For Batman's grapnel gun, it's range, weight, time to load, perhaps accuracy, etc.

[Flyndaran]

I was wondering about that myself. I figured innate lines could get by with Innate Attack skills, and external grappling hooks might fall under all the equipment use Climbing allows.
I still remember "getting schooled" way back in the day about how that skill is not just about scrambling up a tree but covers all the fiddly objects mountain climbers use as well.

[Phantasm]

There are grapnel guns in Ultra-Tech which could cover the one Batman uses. Spidey's web-shooters really are best handled by the Climbing Line Perk, though; plus Binding and Crushing Attacks with Gadget modifiers (and maybe Limited Use with reloads to give them some sort of Shots stat, as he needs to reload them every so often, when the writers remember the web-shooters need reloading).

The Swinging Perk is useful for Spidey so that he doesn't need to make Acrobatics rolls every time he travels via swinging outside of combat. Batman using it depends on the writer; right before his big brawl with Azbats, he forced himself to confront his own fear of leaping from the tallest building in Gotham while tossing a batarang with a line on it. There were other times - including in the animated series, where he'd use Swinging. Other writers tend not to have him use his grapnel gun that often; Keaton, Kilmer, and Clooney certainly didn't use it in their films.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by tbrock1031

There are grapnel guns in Ultra-Tech which could cover the one Batman uses.
.

The Electromagnetic Autograpnel is TL10 and weighs 5 lbs. Batman's is so much smaller that it might be better handled as a Gadget.

Note that you probably can put a Gadget Limit on a 1 pt Perk. It'll still cost 1 cp though.

[aesir23]

The problem with all this is, where to start with the gadget.

If climbing and swinging don't allow me to fire a grappling hook, attach it to something, and swing from it, what advantage does?

I don't want to get into some messy highly limited flight, as in some versions of spiderman.