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Old 07-22-2021, 06:56 PM   #1
Prince Charon
 
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Default [Magic] Development of Spell-based Magic through TL0

Something of a worldbuilding exercise, inspired by a different idea that I might work on later.

For clarity, I'm dividing Technology Level 0 up further than GURPS Low-Tech does:
Lower Paleolithic (began circa ~3 million years ago), TL0a
Middle Paleolithic (began circa ~300,000 years ago), TL0b
Upper Paleolithic (began circa ~50,000 years ago), TL0c
Epipalaeolithic/Mesolithic (began circa ~20,000 years ago), TL0d
Pre-Pottery Neolithic (began circa ~10,000 years ago), TL0e
Pottery Neolithic (began circa ~8,400 years ago), TL0f
Chalcolithic (began circa ~7,000 years ago), TL0g

Around the beginning of the Lower Paleolithic, mages of the genus Australopithecus and other higher primates begin using very simple, IQ/A or even IQ/E spells (still used by modern non-human Great Apes, and possibly other animals in the IQ 6-7 range), perhaps ceremonially; a few spells based on other attributes may have existed in this era. The number of spells known would be very small, one or a few per band/tribe, passed on master-apprentice style, and on rare occasions learned through contact with other groups. As brains grew more sophisticated with the evolution of Homo habilis, H. erectus, and H. antecessor, this would become more common, and the first IQ/H spells could have been developed, though this is more likely in TL0b, with the rise of first H. heidelbergensis and then early H. sapiens - the Neanderthals and Cro Magnons. IQ/H spells would most likely have had no other spells as prerequisites for a very long period, with the first to have spells as prerequisites being more likely in either TL0c or TL0d. Advancement would be quite through the Paleolithic and Mesolithic, as any time spent on learning spells was time that could not be spent on other things needed by the tribe, and job specialization beyond 'hunter or gatherer' was far more common in later eras than in this one. Enchantment spells are possible, but are likely to be rare if we assume something too close to the standard rules - even Quick and Dirty enchantment requires learning at least eleven spells first, if you don't use one of the bypassing options (e.g. Wild Talent or the Charm perk).

The Neolithic would have an explosion of magical learning: First, specialization and what would otherwise be leisure time increase in this era, along with intellectual concepts like mathematics and proto-writing, allowing a village's mages more time to spend learning magic, inventing spells, and creating magic items (Slow and Sure enchantment probably started in Neolithic villages). Second, trade routes (possibly started by nomadic tribes who were passing through those areas anyway on regular or semi-regular migration circuits) would allow magical learning to spread more, so that a wider range of spells could be learned, and more new spells related to them could be invented. Where a TL0d mage that knew a dozen spells total would be exceptionally learned, a mage in TL0f or the later parts of TL0e might know multiple spells that need a dozen spell-prerequisites each. On a minor note, the idea of Spell Colleges could date from this era. Also, the Scroll spells probably dates from either TL0g or the early parts of TL1, whenever the GM agrees that writing has become sophisticated enough (which will also be the era in which spells can first be learned directly from writings, with no instructor). Magical Styles could theoretically have been developed in TL0d, but like Colleges (which arguably could be very old styles that got big), are more fitting at TL0e or later.


Thoughts?
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Old 07-22-2021, 07:08 PM   #2
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Default Re: [Magic] Development of Spell-based Magic through TL0

I hope this helps. In technomancer the number of words for a single spell is around 20.000 Words for mental hard spells, mental very hard have more.

If you plan to work without writing, and literacy appears long time later, you need your mages at least memorize large parts of there grimoire. You can do this without eidetic memory, but it will take a long time to learn. The celtic druids had a learning time of 20 years before the were considered finished. Of course high levels of magery shorten the necessary time span a lot.

Also in earlier time many sages and bards had learned learning techniques to memorize there songs, storys etc. Some of the greatest storys in history have been a long time only existed from mouth to mouth like the illias.

As for tade routes, even in the neolithic europe had some good researched routes all over the continent. Tin, salt and luxury goods travelled far, even before that firestone and other stones good for making tools and weapons were traded. Some raw unworked stones were transported over several 100km, in part british stones appeared in south europe.

Last edited by Willy; 07-22-2021 at 07:14 PM. Reason: spelling error, added example
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Old 07-23-2021, 05:06 AM   #3
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Default Re: [Magic] Development of Spell-based Magic through TL0

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prince Charon View Post
Around the beginning of the Lower Paleolithic, mages of the genus Australopithecus and other higher primates begin using very simple, IQ/A or even IQ/E spells (still used by modern non-human Great Apes, and possibly other animals in the IQ 6-7 range), perhaps ceremonially; a few spells based on other attributes may have existed in this era.
It might be simplest in GURPS 4E to represent these sorts of magical powers as Perks or magic-based advantages which represent evolutionary precursors to actual Magery/ Power Investiture.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prince Charon View Post
Advancement would be quite through the Paleolithic and Mesolithic, as any time spent on learning spells was time that could not be spent on other things needed by the tribe, and job specialization beyond 'hunter or gatherer' was far more common in later eras than in this one.
Remember that small bands of people living in prime environments only need to spend a few hours each day foraging for food. That gives people lots of time to do other things, especially given that the idea of generating excess goods for purposes of advertising social status or for trade probably doesn't catch on until the Upper Paleolithic.

Magical rituals might also be incorporated into daily routines, such as chanting incantations while fishing or foraging.

Imbuements might be precursors to formal Enchantments.

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Originally Posted by Prince Charon View Post
First, specialization and what would otherwise be leisure time increase in this era, along with intellectual concepts like mathematics and proto-writing
Actually, there's good evidence that free time and quality of life actually dropped considerably for many neolithic farmers (and possibly pastoralists). The tradeoff was that agriculture allowed much higher population densities, but at the cost of poorer health and increased disease risk for most of the population.

The benefits of neolithic agricultural society for magic are a more settled lifestyle which allows better access to specialized magical equipment and places of magical power, as well as the rise of dedicated mages/priests who could just focus on their magical training.

Neolithic settlements might spring up near places of magical power in support of dedicated a priest/mage caste, like the communities associated with Stonehenge and associated "henges" in SW England.
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Old 07-23-2021, 10:19 AM   #4
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Default Re: [Magic] Development of Spell-based Magic through TL0

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Originally Posted by Pursuivant View Post
It might be simplest in GURPS 4E to represent these sorts of magical powers as Perks or magic-based advantages which represent evolutionary precursors to actual Magery/ Power Investiture.
Maybe. I mostly thought of IQ/A spells because they were introduced relatively recently, and IQ/E spells followed from that.

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Originally Posted by Pursuivant View Post
Remember that small bands of people living in prime environments only need to spend a few hours each day foraging for food. That gives people lots of time to do other things, especially given that the idea of generating excess goods for purposes of advertising social status or for trade probably doesn't catch on until the Upper Paleolithic.
I vaguely think that passed through my mind earlier, and then I forgot about it while typing it up. So, the number of spells per tribe could be larger in the Upper Paleolithic, then.

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Originally Posted by Pursuivant View Post
Magical rituals might also be incorporated into daily routines, such as chanting incantations while fishing or foraging.

Imbuements might be precursors to formal Enchantments.
Both good points.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pursuivant View Post
Actually, there's good evidence that free time and quality of life actually dropped considerably for many neolithic farmers (and possibly pastoralists). The tradeoff was that agriculture allowed much higher population densities, but at the cost of poorer health and increased disease risk for most of the population.

The benefits of neolithic agricultural society for magic are a more settled lifestyle which allows better access to specialized magical equipment and places of magical power, as well as the rise of dedicated mages/priests who could just focus on their magical training.
OK, so I was wrong about part of why, but the Neolithic Magical Explosion is still plausible.

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Originally Posted by Pursuivant View Post
Neolithic settlements might spring up near places of magical power in support of dedicated a priest/mage caste, like the communities associated with Stonehenge and associated "henges" in SW England.
Yeah, I can see that. Also, the number of Neolithic henges in the British Isles is pretty impressive, even limiting it to the ones that survived long enough to enter history. Presumably, the more powerful magic sites would have larger populations around them, especially if they're stable and powerful (though a site or set of sites that vary in power in a predictable way would still be important, especially if there's a set of sites near each other that wax and wane at different times of the year, as perhaps at Stonehenge and Woodhenge).
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Old 07-24-2021, 05:19 PM   #5
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Default Re: [Magic] Development of Spell-based Magic through TL0

Expanding on the above a bit, what do you think the magical significance of Göbekli Tepe might have been in this setting? I mean, it's very old, very well-made for the era, large, and was in use for a long period. Probably a lot of work went into making it.
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Old 07-25-2021, 03:17 AM   #6
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Default Re: [Magic] Development of Spell-based Magic through TL0

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Originally Posted by Willy View Post
I hope this helps. In technomancer the number of words for a single spell is around 20.000 Words for mental hard spells, mental very hard have more.
IMHO Technomancer is not a good model as explained in the GURPSwiki:

On page 77's sidebar it is stated that Voodoo's Ritual Magic doesn't exist on Merlin-1. The problem is not only is the later Spirits version of Ritual Magic substantially different from Voodoo's but both are different from Ritual Magic in 4e. Voodoo used Initiation, Spirits used Ritual Adept to reduce components, and neither used Magery or mana.

GURPS 4e split aspects of Voodoo's magic system: Power Investiture took the idea of eliminating mana (but replaced it with Sanctity) while Magery (Ritual) took the path mechanics but retained the mana requirement.

In short they are different enough that saying Initiation Ritual Magic doesn't exist on Merlin-1 is NOT the same as saying Ritual Adept and Magery (Ritual Magic) don't exist on Merlin-1.
---
Roma Arcana has mana being "free" spirits with deities and it is thought that something more along what would fall under GURPS' symbol magic with ritual magic elements existed in the stone age.

It would be more along the lines of painting the last successful hunt on a cave wall as a spell to make the next hunt more successful than a series of words.
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Old 07-25-2021, 03:20 AM   #7
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Default Re: [Magic] Development of Spell-based Magic through TL0

There's this mysterious stalagmite stone circle built by Neanderthals in France. We have no idea why, but I think it was a team-building exercise.
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Old 07-25-2021, 07:00 AM   #8
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Default Re: [Magic] Development of Spell-based Magic through TL0

Another way to look at it is the cost of inventing spells. RAW, inventing a spell with no prereqs would require a workshop worth $12,000 (Magic, p. 15; energy cost at TL0 is $33*625/700 = about $30), where $1,200 is consumables per spell invention. At TL0, $12,000 is the starting wealth of 96 struggling-wealth people or 240 poor people. So it would require a tribe of people to basically give everything they have (not just luxuries but tools, tents, etc.) to the shaman to let them create a spell invention "workshop" (a TL0 workshop might be as mobile as the tribe, or it might be fixed location the shaman returns to).

Maybe more realistically, a comfortable-wealth shaman could save up for 20 years ($1,250 monthly pay - $1,200 cost of living = $50/month for saving) to establish their workshop, but could then produce zero-prereq spells every 2 years or so (and then pass on the workshop to their apprentice).

But then the cost of inventing a spell with a single prereq doubles that cost, etc. By the time you're up to 4-prereq spells or so, establishing a workshop would require over a century of savings. That's probably going to need to wait until TL1 city-states for concentration of wealth and patronage.
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Old 07-25-2021, 10:20 AM   #9
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Another way to look at it is the cost of inventing spells. RAW, inventing a spell with no prereqs would require a workshop worth $12,000 (Magic, p. 15; energy cost at TL0 is $33*625/700 = about $30), where $1,200 is consumables per spell invention.
Uh. The flaw in that reasoning is on Magic, p. 20: "For a typical TL3 fantasy setting with plentiful wizardry and shops full of magic items, it should be possible to commission a magic item for about $33 per energy point. "

Paut elixir suggests that the material cost and sale price of 1 energy point is based 1/100 and 1/30 of a TL's base starting income respectively. (Thaumatology pg 52)

So that $33 market price is the rounding of $1k/30 (production is $10) for a specially commissioned item.

TL0 is $500 so production cost is $5 and commissioned retail is $16⅔

More over I seriously doubt spells as GURPS magic describes them would even exist at TL0. Symbol Magic and its bigger cousin Syntactic Magic as well as Craft Magic would more logically be king.

The flexibility of Syntactic/Symbol Magic makes developing new "spells" (new combinations) child's play once your people have developed a decent amount of nouns and verbs and symbols for them.
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Old 07-25-2021, 02:48 PM   #10
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Default Re: [Magic] Development of Spell-based Magic through TL0

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More over I seriously doubt spells as GURPS magic describes them would even exist at TL0. Symbol Magic and its bigger cousin Syntactic Magic as well as Craft Magic would more logically be king.

The flexibility of Syntactic/Symbol Magic makes developing new "spells" (new combinations) child's play once your people have developed a decent amount of nouns and verbs and symbols for them.
While I prefer Syntactic, Symbolic, and Path/Book magics, this thread assumes that the standard system is in use, and if they were using Syntactic or Symbolic already, there would be little reason to switch over to the standard system.

I do agree with you on the effective prices being much lower ('effective' because money wasn't invented yet in TL0).

EDIT: For purposes of this thread, assume that it is very much possible to invent new spells without a lab, it's just harder. However, most spells in the early parts of TL0 were created (sometimes repeatedly) by someone having Wild Talent with Retention, being born with the Charm perk for that spell, or some other bypass. Also, not sure if it's said in the books, but I tend to assume that magical research is easier the higher the local mana level is (and that Aspected mana affects this, as it affects casting).
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