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Old 07-03-2022, 10:53 AM   #21
whswhs
 
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Default Re: Adaptations: Not what I was thinking

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Originally Posted by JulianLW View Post
I suspect the OP was thinking the book would have some crunch - instructions for adapting content from other systems - into GURPS. Maybe not necessarily "this is how to adapt a Constitution score of 15 into GURPS," but perhaps something similar to that?
I can see that such a thing might appeal to some people. But I don't run a lot of campaigns that are directly inspired by material from other game systems. On the other hand, I've run campaigns inspired by the Rick Brant novels, the Uplift series, DC superheroes, Atlas Shrugged, the Zimiamvia novels, The Lord of the Rings, Buffy the Vampire Slayer (twice), the Discworld, the Miles Vorkosigan novels, and the Laundry Files; and for seven of those, either there weren't published rules or I didn't use the ones that existed. So it seemed natural to me that other GMs might be interested in "How do I turn my favorite novel/epic poem/movie/TV series/graphic novel into a campaign?"

Can you suggest a title that would have made it clearer that I was doing THAT, and not the game mechanical analysis you suggest?
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Old 07-03-2022, 11:10 AM   #22
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Default Re: Adaptations: Not what I was thinking

I also thought it was lacking something at first, I bought it and I was expecting something unknown but key to translating fiction and others works but I didn't find it, it wasn't there.

But I got what I was needing, I felt like Po in Kung Fu Panda when he opens the dragon scroll, I knew everything I needed to know to make those adaptations already and there was nothing else I needed except realizing there was nothing else but start adapting.

It was like a bad feeling at first and then a hit on the head and all was good.

It is great for newer GM's or people not used to adapting things to GURPS, but it is also good to have for the good advice and also help me focus on what I really need to do to have what I want instead of wasting time trying to adapt things by the technical or narrative information of the other game/literary work (like stop trying to make the GURPS Spaceship system to work like another game space combat system and stuff like that).

Last edited by Rolando; 07-03-2022 at 02:37 PM.
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Old 07-03-2022, 01:36 PM   #23
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Default Re: Adaptations: Not what I was thinking

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Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
Can you suggest a title that would have made it clearer that I was doing THAT, and not the game mechanical analysis you suggest?
Nope.
...
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Old 07-03-2022, 06:15 PM   #24
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Default Re: Adaptations: Not what I was thinking

I will once again remind people that I'm not saying that Adaptations is bad, just not what I was expecting. As I read through it again I think that I might have found why this was so: it feels like half a book to me.

Don't get me wrong: I realise that there are limitations, whether it is from the page limit/word count, the restriction to non-copyrighted materials, and so forth. It's also not possible to satisfy everyone nor be able to pitch something to people of all experience levels.

A lot of struck me as just giving a name to things that people have been doing. There's nothing wrong with that, especially if in this case it draws from literary theory, creative writing etc. Sometimes having the right name makes your research in preparing a campaign easier.

In terms of breaking down characters etc. it felt like it was repeating How to be a GURPS GM with reference to recommendations about character power levels etc. I liked the example characters as I'm a real sucker for this type of thing.

(FWIW, one of my favourite games for this is Amber DRPG where it not only breaks down different characters but different interpretations of characters.)

Perhaps that's one feeling of absence for me? The work just needed more examples?

The second bit of "absence"--perhaps that "part 2"?--was that I felt that it could have engaged more with Powers or Thaumatology insofar as dealing with the more esoteric. That's where the difficulty is in dealing with adaptations of fictional settings--not really the characters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormcrow
Basically, it's what you said you expected: examining the various elements that make up a setting that are important to an RPG and showing how to express them in GURPS.
But in a way that is useful to anything more than the novice GM?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlKost
What exactly were you looking for? Worked examples? That would be highly impractical - althought someone could publish a "Shadowrun, WoD, Coda, D&D and (place some 5 more titles here)" that would be an insane endevour and very niche specific
As above, I'm a sucker for worked examples and, more importantly, the insight of someone that builds them. The work has a few of these, but not many.

In general, though, put a breakdown of characters into an IP-based product (e.g., Serernity) and I'll eat it up. It's a weakness of mine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JulianLW
I suspect the OP was thinking the book would have some crunch - instructions for adapting content from other systems - into GURPS.
Incorrect. There are lessons to be learned from wherever the source of inspiration is. How to be a GURPS GM provides the means to do this in terms of breaking down characters without supernatural or otherwise esoteric abilities. (I had previously used a GURPS/FUDGE comparison for this, and for helping players with character generation, but the aformentioned work works just as well now.)

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Originally Posted by SilvercatMoonpaw
If the OP wants worked examples of modern properties, they should investigate GURPS Discworld, GURPS Girl Genius, GURPS Casey and Andy, and the Vorkosigan Saga Sourcebook and Roleplaying Game.
I'm sure that they're useful to many people. I don't really know anything about the properties other than Discworld, which I've always been scared of because I feel that I would never be able to do it justice.

A good reminder, though. I should pick up the 4e version of Discworld. It's been a long time since I read a Discworld novel, so it might not be that helpful on the idea of adaptation, but I'm sure that I'll love the read.

*purchased*

Quote:
Originally Posted by wshwhs
I figure that if you're relatively new to GMing you can use the help and if you've done it yourself you may well have an interest in seeing how someone else does it, just as a skilled and experienced cook might find it interesting to read cookbooks.
I guess that I just wanted more of the insight and less of the literary breakdown?
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Old 07-03-2022, 06:57 PM   #25
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Default Re: Adaptations: Not what I was thinking

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I'm sure that they're useful to many people. I don't really know anything about the properties other than Discworld, which I've always been scared of because I feel that I would never be able to do it justice.
There are also 3E properties for things like Conan, but I don't know how useful those are to a 4E DM.
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Old 07-03-2022, 07:15 PM   #26
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Default Re: Adaptations: Not what I was thinking

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On one hand, realism vs. cinematic, but on the other, mundane vs. fantastic, with a discussion of the corner cases: the cinematic mundane (such as the Three Musketeers or Agent 007) and the realistic fantastic (such as hard science fiction).

As for worked examples, what Fred says is correct: all the examples come from six widely influential classic narrative works. (Water Margin isn't widely read in North America, or well known by that title, but as a source work for martial arts it's tremendously influential on popular culture at one or two removes.) Much of the book is taken up with recommendations on how to take the content of a fictional source and translate it into GURPS mechanics. I figure that if you're relatively new to GMing you can use the help and if you've done it yourself you may well have an interest in seeing how someone else does it, just as a skilled and experienced cook might find it interesting to read cookbooks.

There are also analytical categories for approaching game-specific content; for example, material things, or attributes (as art historians call them), are divided into gear, evidence, personalizers, valuables, and transcendent objects, based on their different narrative functions.
Mundane vs Fantastic, absolutely, I forgot about that. Yes, like I said I do not doubt the quality of the product nor that it would indeed be helpful to me - there hasnt been a single Gurps title I have ever regreated acquiring, and even on subjects I could say that "I got covered" - such as Alternate Attributes, which like I said I already used and had many similar ideas to it, even before the title was published, and I still found it massively useful.

I have no doubt such would also be the case for "Adaptations", but life is made of choices after all, so I have to choose what I can and cant live without, so that was one that took the cut. Just like DF, Action, MH and several others, I know all of those are incredible, but I just (sadly) cant afford the entire world.
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Old 07-03-2022, 07:20 PM   #27
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Default Re: Adaptations: Not what I was thinking

I went and skimmed the product, and I think I can see what the OP wanted. Ex. There's a text box with info for making GURPS Space entries for retro-sci-fi planets in the vein of late 19th/early 20th century fiction. That's immediately more useful to some people over entries like Mood.
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Old 07-03-2022, 07:23 PM   #28
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Default Re: Adaptations: Not what I was thinking

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Originally Posted by SilvercatMoonpaw View Post
There are also 3E properties for things like Conan, but I don't know how useful those are to a 4E DM.
And I have many of those, too, being someone from the 3e days. They can, indeed, be insightful when you reverse engineer it.

I wasn't really talking about them, though.

I'll just chalk it up to my own expectations, rate the product appropriately, and move on.

Not every GURPS book works for everyone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilvercatMoonpaw View Post
I went and skimmed the product, and I think I can see what the OP wanted. Ex. There's a text box with info for making GURPS Space entries for retro-sci-fi planets in the vein of late 19th/early 20th century fiction. That's immediately more useful to some people over entries like Mood.
Not quite, but perhaps that was a little bit too niche and "out of the blue", as it were.

Last edited by Kage2020; 07-03-2022 at 07:30 PM. Reason: Didn't want to double post.
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Old 07-03-2022, 07:38 PM   #29
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Default Re: Adaptations: Not what I was thinking

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Originally Posted by Kage2020 View Post
The second bit of "absence"--perhaps that "part 2"?--was that I felt that it could have engaged more with Powers or Thaumatology insofar as dealing with the more esoteric. That's where the difficulty is in dealing with adaptations of fictional settings--not really the characters.
The trouble with including magic, specifically, is that there is no real world reference point for actually functioning magic. On one hand, magic is defined in GURPS by systems of specialized rules; those rules may have internal consistency but cannot be "reality tested." On the other hand, magic is defined in narrative and dramatic works by the way it's presented, which is largely through events and never has anything like a complete system. It's not possible to go through all the GURPS magic systems and identify which of them corresponds to which fictional treatment of magic. And that's all the more so for premodern works published before genre fantasy had come into existence.

Yes, there is magic in the Odyssey, and in Water Margin (though it might better be called "powers" or "cinematic skills"), and in The Wonderful Wizard of Oz. But none of those is anything like a "magic system."
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Old 07-03-2022, 08:17 PM   #30
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Default Re: Adaptations: Not what I was thinking

It's true that you can't usually infer from a fantasy novel anything like a complete system of how the magic is supposed to work. But you can sometimes tell that one of GURPS's magic systems would fit what happens in the book much more accurately than another. For instance, obviously for a game based on a book where improvising spells is common the Ritual Magic variants will make more sense than the standard magic system. And I've seen various things suggested for Middle Earth games - some people suggest standard magic, some ritual magic, some suggest having some races use one and some the other, and some people suggest casting spells using music or art skills.
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