Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-03-2022, 04:25 PM   #1
LoneWolf23k
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Default Using GURPS for Star Trek TNG (no Prime Directive)

Okay, so long story short, I began a campaign of Star Trek Adventures some time ago, but I've come to realize I really don't like using the Modiphius 2d20 system. Instead, I've managed to convince my players to let me convert the game to GURPS rules.

As my campaign is set in the TNG era, more or less post-Dominion War, I've basically decided that GURPS Prime Directive wasn't going to be that useful for my purposes, other than datamining some templates.

Instead, I'll be relying on GURPS Space, Ultra-Tech and Spaceships for the core of my conversion work. The Campaign would definitely have a Cinematic feel, with power levels of around 100-200.

For example, the Career Templates for Astronauts, Scientists and the like will form the core of Starfleet Crewmembers. I'm considering simplifying skills with the Wild Card skills. Just feels wrong for a Starfleet Engineer to not be able to turn rocks into replicators, given enough time.

In terms of Tech Levels, I'd go with the recommendation in GURPS Ultra-Tech to have the Federation be a Safe-Tech civilization, although I'd par them down to TL11, so I can make TL12 and over far more amazing in terms of tech.

I'd definitely use the Omni-Blaster for Starfleet's Phasers, as they'd have both a stun and kill setting, although I'd make them more like 3e's Omni-Blasters, having Stun, Kill, Tight-Beam and Plasma settings, making them the ultra-versatile weapons they are in Trek. And the "disintegration" is really just a special effect of dealing "Total Body Destruction" levels of damage to a target.

In terms of ship tech, I'm sticking to TL11 for most starfaring powers, with Teleport Projectors and Replicators being exceptions.

I'm posting this, in part to voice my thoughts as to where I'm going with this, but also opening myself to advice from others. Feel free to offer advice or ask questions.
LoneWolf23k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2022, 04:59 PM   #2
Stormcrow
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ronkonkoma, NY
Default Re: Using GURPS for Star Trek TNG (no Prime Directive)

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneWolf23k View Post
I'm considering simplifying skills with the Wild Card skills. Just feels wrong for a Starfleet Engineer to not be able to turn rocks into replicators, given enough time.
Only the really good officers should have wildcard skills, and only in their specialties. And not even every good officer will have wildcard skills. Only use them to reinforce a particularly cinematic ability.

Quote:
In terms of Tech Levels, I'd go with the recommendation in GURPS Ultra-Tech to have the Federation be a Safe-Tech civilization, although I'd par them down to TL11, so I can make TL12 and over far more amazing in terms of tech.
Star Trek is definitely safe-tech, but I wouldn't bother trying to pin down TLs for everything. Star Trek is notoriously all over the place with TLs, and unfortunately your bringing them up is liable to start yet another argument about whether it's 8+3 or 6+5 or ^ or not ^ and so on and on. Forget all that. You already know which gadgets from GURPS Ultra-Tech already appear in Star Trek. Use your baseline TL only for judging penalties for super-advanced civilizations' gadgets that the crew run into. It's not important to strictly define TLs; what matters is knowing what equipment is in your civilization and how difficult it is to use equipment from outside your civilization.

Quote:
In terms of ship tech, I'm sticking to TL11 for most starfaring powers, with Teleport Projectors and Replicators being exceptions.
More than one Star Trek ship has been built in a generic version in the GURPS Spaceships series, with the serial numbers filed off, but I don't remember offhand which ones they are.
Stormcrow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2022, 05:31 PM   #3
whswhs
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
Default Re: Using GURPS for Star Trek TNG (no Prime Directive)

If you are going for TNG, it was made early enough so that most of the essential developments of TL8 are nonexistent, or just at the experimental stage, or the work of lone geniuses like Data's creator. I'd call it TL(7+4)^ on the safetech line. I agree with your idea that there ought to be a higher TL out there that can do stuff the Federation can only be awed by.

The franchise as a whole has the tropes of classic SF, from the Astounding era of the 1940s up into the 1960s or maybe the 1970s: FTL, aliens (especially humanoid aliens), occasional supermen, psionics, time travel, parallel worlds, force fields. It doesn't have much of the tropes that showed up, for example, in Transhuman Space: nanotech, cyberspace, widespread AI, massive data processing, genetic engineering (Khan and his crew were canonically the products of eugenics), STL star travel (or the equivalence of FTL and time travel), brain/computer interfaces, largely robotic exploration of space. Nor does it take into account our current knowledge of other planetary systems (obviously there was no way it could have done so). So if you want to capture the feel you have to ignore the past few decades of science and technology.
__________________
Bill Stoddard

I don't think we're in Oz any more.
whswhs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2022, 07:28 AM   #4
Pursuivant
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Default Re: Using GURPS for Star Trek TNG (no Prime Directive)

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneWolf23k View Post
Instead, I'll be relying on GURPS Space, Ultra-Tech and Spaceships for the core of my conversion work. The Campaign would definitely have a Cinematic feel, with power levels of around 100-200.
Captain Joy's Star Trek page is easily adapted to a TNG era game.

http://captainjoy.chunkyboy.com/GURP...n_Console.html

In particular, the divisional templates are loosely based on the Last Unicorn Games Star Trek game and give a good feel for different departments.

His take on the Star Trek alien species isn't always based on canon but is good enough to get a "trek like" flavor.

I've done some work to adapt the GURPS 3E fan-made versions of Star Trek TNG to GURPS 4E and also looked at how previous version of Star Trek games (from FASA on) could be converted to GURPS 4E.

My take on TL is that it advances from TL9 at a rate of about 1 TL per century. TL9^ by 2063, TL10^ by 2151, TL 11^ by 2251, TL12^ by 2351. There's a very good case to be made that it's divergent tech with a TL7+n^ format.

Basic Starfleet characters should start at a minimum of 150 character points, more likely 250. Main characters from the TV shows/movies will come in at a minimum of 350 points not counting Allies and Ally Groups. Characters like Data are god-like and have a point cost of 2,000 or more.

To get the ridiculous levels of competence that Star Trek officers regularly demonstrate, assume that they're working with Very Fine equipment and that advanced haptic interfaces in the LCARS system give a bonus equal to TL/2 for "intended use" of a given ship's system by a trained operator. For example, Chief O'Brien gets a +6 bonus to Electronics Operation (Matter Transmitters) when doing anything with a state of the art 22nd century transporter short of reconfiguring it into an industrial waffle iron.

If you want to model the main characters from the various series without wildcard skills or ridiculous skill levels, treat Rank at a talent which affects all skills within a given division as well as giving social clout. For example, Rank (Command) gives a bonus to Leadership, Shiphandling (Starships), etc. Also add generous levels of applicable Talents. This explains why the bridge crew is Truly Badass while security grunts die like flies.

Even so, wildcard skills will be necessary to model hypercompetent characters without ridiculously long skill lists.

Use the Dabbler perk to cover half-forgotten academy classes and allow any skill covered by Dabbler to benefit from equipment bonuses and interface bonuses, at least for routine tasks and repairs.

Assume that characters benefit from super-advanced speed learning which quarters the time required to learn a particular skill. That means that it takes just 50 hours to gain a point in a skill, or 25 hours for learning under pressure. Assume that holodeck simulations, advanced teaching methods, etc. give a TL bonus + Very Fine Equipment bonus to rolls to learn skills under pressure.

When converting species, avoid the temptation to base racial templates on what main characters in the series can do and only list what is described or shown to be typical for the species. For example, your basic Trill template is going to be fairly close to 0 CP, with only conjoined symbiotes having a high character point cost.

That said, if you count every physiological advantage that Vulcans are described as a having, you get a ridiculously high cost template. I worked it out at about 150 points, and that's just for the guys droning chants and beating the gongs during the rituals. Psionic adepts get expensive fast. Captain Joy's trick of requiring Vulcans to take various mental disadvantages with Mitigator: Daily Meditation does the best job of modeling the intense emotional turmoil lurking under the serene facade.

Klingons will also have a high template cost based on their described traits. I worked it out at about 100 points. Your average Borg drone also has a stupidly high template cost - a personal force field that can stop phasers, being able to survive in hard vacuum, and the ability to create allies by assimilating anyone you touch doesn't come cheap.

Finally, reconfigure Cultural Adaptability/Xenoadaptability. Let the CA cover knowledge of the dominant culture of any relatively commonly encountered species. XA covers knowledge of any known species, no matter how obscure, as well as subcultures.
Pursuivant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2022, 07:49 AM   #5
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: Using GURPS for Star Trek TNG (no Prime Directive)

I was looking through UT last night and TL11^ Gravity Ripple Communicators would be just right for TOS hand coms TNG-era Tiny combadges would come up short in the same tech. Even advancing them to TL12^ is still too short range.

The fTL Tiny combadges are overkill though obviously Trek uses such things for ship to ship (with relay sats to talk all the way to StarFleet HQ.
__________________
Fred Brackin
Fred Brackin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2022, 08:04 AM   #6
Stormcrow
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ronkonkoma, NY
Default Re: Using GURPS for Star Trek TNG (no Prime Directive)

For what it's worth, you don't need to lower the Star Trek TL just to make room for super-ultra alien technologies. TLs from 13 on can still be available, just representing "way beyond us."
Stormcrow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2022, 08:48 AM   #7
maximara
On Notice
 
maximara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Sumter, SC
Default Re: Using GURPS for Star Trek TNG (no Prime Directive)

Quote:
Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
If you are going for TNG, it was made early enough so that most of the essential developments of TL8 are nonexistent, or just at the experimental stage, or the work of lone geniuses like Data's creator. I'd call it TL(7+4)^ on the safetech line. I agree with your idea that there ought to be a higher TL out there that can do stuff the Federation can only be awed by.
I might go with TL(7+3)^ just so you have a little more wiggle room about running into the uberly advanced civilization of the month. Superscience tends to mess up the TL scale.
__________________
Help make a digital reference for GURPS by coming to the GURPS wiki and provide some information and links (such as to various Fanmade 4e Bestiaries) . Please, provide more then just a title and a page number.
maximara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2022, 10:20 AM   #8
David Johnston2
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Default Re: Using GURPS for Star Trek TNG (no Prime Directive)

Quote:
Originally Posted by maximara View Post
I might go with TL(7+3)^ just so you have a little more wiggle room about running into the uberly advanced civilization of the month. Superscience tends to mess up the TL scale.
You don't need wiggle room. You can always declare the latest space gods to be TL 13 or 14 or 15. The standard set of assumptions for where to put super science puts TL 11 as the point where you have the omniblasters, forcefields, antimatter, and artificial gravity. And TNG's default income level is very high.
David Johnston2 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2022, 04:36 PM   #9
maximara
On Notice
 
maximara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Sumter, SC
Default Re: Using GURPS for Star Trek TNG (no Prime Directive)

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
You don't need wiggle room. You can always declare the latest space gods to be TL 13 or 14 or 15. The standard set of assumptions for where to put super science puts TL 11 as the point where you have the omniblasters, forcefields, antimatter, and artificial gravity. And TNG's default income level is very high.
What income level? The Federation doesn't use money as Picard is so often fond of saying. /s

Yes, I call Picard on that claim as well (even in TNG it is contradicted and certainly wasn't true in TOS) but post scarcity civilizations by their very nature mess up the GURPS income levels horribly.

Each of your examples have superscience issues.

*Considering blasters (and phasers) seem to work equally well in and out of a vacuum and are visible in both they are superscience.
*Force fields are a superscience device (Ultra-Tech 190)
*True artificial gravity (as opposed that generated by centrifugal force) is a superscience (Ultra-Tech 78 as Gravity Control)

The only direct reference to how powerful antimatter comes from TOS ('less than one ounce (~28.6 grams) of antimatter is more powerful than ten thousand cobalt bombs') and it actually does provide some information. A Joule is kg*c^2, so assuming total conversion one gets 5.1408796 PJ or 1.13 megatons for "real" antimatter (even if we use Ultra-Tech 43 kilotons per gram that only produces 1.2298 kilotons). Tsar Bomba (tested 30 October 1961) produced 240 PJ or nearly 48 times that of the antimatter that 'ripped away half a planet's atmosphere'. Ergo Star Trek antimatter is superscience just as it is for Britannica-5 (though for different reasons) removing it from TL consideration.

Given the ease at which TL6-7 cultures can understand Federation level TL (Piece of the Action, Star Trek IV, Future's End, Little Green Men) a TL in the 9 to 10 range seems to be a given even in Janeway's time.

There is jut no way a TL7 person would understand TL beyond TL10 in 1967 much less use it to create the micro-computer by the 1970s (Future's End)
__________________
Help make a digital reference for GURPS by coming to the GURPS wiki and provide some information and links (such as to various Fanmade 4e Bestiaries) . Please, provide more then just a title and a page number.
maximara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2022, 05:10 PM   #10
whswhs
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
Default Re: Using GURPS for Star Trek TNG (no Prime Directive)

Quote:
Originally Posted by maximara View Post
What income level? The Federation doesn't use money as Picard is so often fond of saying. /s

Yes, I call Picard on that claim as well (even in TNG it is contradicted and certainly wasn't true in TOS) but post scarcity civilizations by their very nature mess up the GURPS income levels horribly.
I would say that "post scarcity" as such is a superscience idea.

In any case, the Federation is not post scarcity, not even in Picard's time. They don't provide individuals with unlimited access to resources; for example, private individuals can't requisition starships equivalent to the Enterprise, or terraform planets to occupy as their private estates. They have access to limited resources. The fact that they use some procedure other than market exchange to determine who gets which resources and how much (itself perhaps a superscience idea—see "Economic Calculation in the Socialist Commonwealth" or "On Being the Right Size") doesn't mean that there aren't processes of allocation going on. We can use the $ to describe those processes, just as we can use it to describe tribal economies based on reciprocity, redistribution, or barter.
__________________
Bill Stoddard

I don't think we're in Oz any more.
whswhs is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:42 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.