12-06-2011, 07:33 AM | #21 | ||
GURPS FAQ Keeper
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyïv, Ukraine
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Re: Changing Rapid Fire
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We have RoF rules which are used everywhere, but are applicable only for TL8 small arms. Neither TL9 beam weapons nor even TL7 vehicle-mounted weapons are completely compatible with them. With TL9 vehicles and vehicular weapons it gets even worse. Quote:
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12-06-2011, 07:49 AM | #22 | |
Join Date: May 2008
Location: CA
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Re: Changing Rapid Fire
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But yes, the main problem with the Rapid Fire rules is its use in Spaceships combat using multi-second turns, and applying the Rapid Fire rules to independently targeted munitions like missile volleys. |
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12-06-2011, 08:10 AM | #23 | |
GURPS FAQ Keeper
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyïv, Ukraine
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Re: Changing Rapid Fire
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On a more serious note, some sort of flak or other TL6 AA trooper shooting at a corn bomber. Or at a Kirov II airship - faster than Kirov I. ;) Or shooting a charging T-Rex from an AK or PPSh in hopes that injuries will accumulate and stop it. In general, though, some sort of AA activity seems like the most likely real-world case (and is applicable to WWII, one of the most serious GURPS settings). |
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12-06-2011, 08:27 AM | #24 |
Join Date: Aug 2009
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Re: Changing Rapid Fire
I always figured there was something strange about shotguns and the rapid fire rules. If you fire one shell from the canonical TL7 Auto Shotgun on p. B279 at a 1 yard stationary target ten yards away, you get
-4 range -2 target size +5 max aim bonus +2 rapid fire bonus for nine "shots" (pellets) +1 all out determined = +2 Let's assume a skill 12 shooter and an average roll of 10, MoS 4 -> five pellets hit. This is beginning professional skill level and so you'd expect this shooter to be able to hit pretty near a bull's eye at 10 yards range, but in order to get all pellets within a one yard target (which is pretty big at this distance) he actually needs to roll 6 or less. The most usual case is for most of the pellets to be on target, but a few to miss. Now for a shotgun this seems remarkable because a proper shotgun simply will not have that much spread after 10 yards (indeed, up to 5 yards GURPS treats the mass of pellets as one solid slug). The conclusion is that it's almost impossible for a skill 12 shooter to correctly aim the weapon at the center of the target, and that most shots end up centered along the perimeter so that a few pellets can manage to miss. This seems wrong to me. Is it really this hard to aim a shotgun correctly at the center of the target? I suspect that if you exchange the canonical 1x9 shell with birdshot or similar with larger number of pellets this will just get even stranger. |
12-06-2011, 08:51 AM | #25 | ||
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Re: Changing Rapid Fire
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The birdshot certainly does provide a clear example. It's also one where fixing the rapid fire mechanic alone would break the game. Birdshot does not tend to instantly kill or dismember people! You may need to combine it with an extended wounding system for that to work out better.
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I don't know any 3e, so there is no chance that I am talking about 3e rules by accident. |
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12-06-2011, 09:48 AM | #26 |
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Re: Changing Rapid Fire
A reasonable change (it does add more math) is:
Look up [Recoil+Rapid fire Bonus-Margin of Success-1] on Speed/range table. Divide the number of shots fired by the result in yards, rounding down, minimum 1, maximum shots fired. This has a nice advantage: if MoS=Rapid Fire bonus+Recoil+1, then you hit with all shots. As MoS inherently includes the Rapid Fire bonus, this means that if you fired well enough to hit with MoS=Recoil+1, WITHOUT any rapid fire bonus you hit with all shots: shooting faster, at constant recoil, doesn't make you less accurate. It suffers a little from the minimum number of hits slowly rising above 1, but this isn't very pronounced. Unfortunately, the low RoF portion of the rapid fire table is linear rather than logarithmic, and the high RoF portion uses a different base than the speed/range table, so combining the two won't scale perfectly. Examples: RoF 3, Recoil 2 [generic pistol]) MoS=0, 1 hit (3/3); MoS=2, 2 hits; MoS=3, 3 hits RoF 8, Recoil 2 [M2]) MoS=0, 1 hit; MoS=1, 2 hits; MoS=2, 4 hits; MoS=3 5 hits; MoS=4, 8 hits RoF 9, Recoil 2 [M16A2]) MoS=0, 1 hits; MoS=2, 3 hits; MoS=3, 4 hits; MoS=4, 6 hits, MoS=5, 9 hits (some break-point issues with MoS=1) RoF 100, Recoil 2 [Vulcan]) MoS=0, 2 hits; MoS=2, 3 hits ... MoS=10, 100 hits |
12-06-2011, 03:12 PM | #27 | |
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Kentucky, USA
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Re: Changing Rapid Fire
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12-06-2011, 08:54 PM | #28 | ||
Wielder of Smart Pants
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ventura CA
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Re: Changing Rapid Fire
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Really if you want to engage the thing as an area target, why not just use suppression fire against the interior. Then the hull counts as cover and basically can't be missed. :) Quote:
Really I don't think the system handles combat with large vehicles all that well at all right now. Which makes sense with only the skeletal chapter in the Basic Set on the subject. |
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12-06-2011, 11:01 PM | #29 | ||
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Provo, UT
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Re: Changing Rapid Fire
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Pg. 469 states: Quote:
Still, I think being a mile away is a little extreme if you are something like an X-Wing trying to strafe a star destroyer. You'd probably wait to fire until you were a little closer and would have plenty of time to aim as you approached. |
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12-06-2011, 11:57 PM | #30 | ||||
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Re: Changing Rapid Fire
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However, since vicky_molokh mentioned speed mods but never actually put them into the calculation, I'm not sure how that's relevant. Quote:
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Aiming, on much the same hand, seems pretty much impossible. In a one-man fighter, aiming means not piloting, and so does taking an Attack or All Out Attack maneuver to be allowed to benefit from aiming. In the dogfighting furballs of Star Wars or BSG, letting your ship just drift for multiple consecutive seconds is more or less suicidal.
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I don't know any 3e, so there is no chance that I am talking about 3e rules by accident. |
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Tags |
house rule, rapid fire, rcl, recoil |
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