Adopting Fantasy Trip style magic to GURPS

[Infornific]

I'm playing around with the idea of converting The Fantasy Trip style magic to GURPS. It seems to me Sorcery might be the best way to handle this. Figuring out modifications for Sorcerous Empowerment is the tricky part - the spells seem fairly simple

If there's a previous thread, my apologies. I looked but I couldn't find one.

For spells, include the limitations:

Incantation -5%
Gesture -5%
Magic -10%
Accessibility (only when not wearing or carrying iron) -10%

Standard spell limitation is -30% before counting Fatigue.

-10% seemed about right for the iron limitation - it seemed comparable to the Elemental limitation.

Modifying Sorcerous Empowerment is trickier. While GURPS Sorcery does list the underlying modifiers for the Sorcerous Empowerment trait, it states that any modifiers should be applied to the trait as a whole. In TFT, improvised magic is casting from a spell book. This requires:

A spell book.
A magic lab or magic chest.
5 minutes preparation.

Prep time of 1 minute is -20% and 10 minutes is -30%. So we'll say -25% for five minutes.

The equipment limitation is trickier. It's bulky, expensive and not very mobile equipment. TFT puts the cost of a spell book at $160 to $280 per spell, with starting wealth of $1,000.

If using gadgets as a comparable limit, that would suggest something like -15% for durability, -10% for Size -5 or -6 to hit and -30% for can be stolen. That would be a total of -55% or -80% total limitation. That seems a bit high. That would make the cost 2 points plus 2 per level. Very cheap but improvised magic is extremely limited. The wizard is usually stuck with known spells.

I could see a lower value on the limitation for equipment but I'm not really sure how to price Accessibility here.

To reflect TFT magic, there would be a cap on the levels of Sorcerous Empowerment you could buy, based on IQ. This is basically a taboo trait so I would treat this as a feature.

Thoughts/suggestions?

[Pursuivant]

As a precursor to GURPS (yes, really - Steve Jackson's first RPG), I always assumed that TFT used standard GURPS style magic.

Sorcerous magic could work though. The main difference is that spells have an IQ minimum, you get a number of spells at each IQ level, and IQ and other traits in TFT can be far higher than GURPS.

In GURPS terms, ultra-high IQ can be modeled using levels of IQ + Magery, and various sorcery style magic spells/power could require a minimum level of IQ + Magery like standard some GURPS spells.

[Rolando]

I think the best (easiest) way of doing this is to simply change some fundamentals and parameters, the energy cost, specially cost to maintain (that in TFT is way more) and prerequisites.

IQ is used for prerequisites and DX is used for casting/launching spells.

You change those assumptions and may use the spells right out from GURPS Magic, with some work of course.

You may add limits to some missile spells too, to make some more powerful than others. Say, Ice sphere cos 1 energy and can't be increased, but lightning cost 3 and can't be used with less nor more energy.

Work in the spells you want introduced instead of the whole system.

I think it is easier to work with this instead of creating a power with multiple advantages/spells, each one with a complex set of modifiers. And it will make it feel as TFT.

[Infornific]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

As a precursor to GURPS (yes, really - Steve Jackson's first RPG), I always assumed that TFT used standard GURPS style magic.

Sorcerous magic could work though. The main difference is that spells have an IQ minimum, you get a number of spells at each IQ level, and IQ and other traits in TFT can be far higher than GURPS.

In GURPS terms, ultra-high IQ can be modeled using levels of IQ + Magery, and various sorcery style magic spells/power could require a minimum level of IQ + Magery like standard some GURPS spells.

Thanks for the feedback. The problem is that casting in TFT is based on DX, not IQ. IQ is a cap on power, but skill depends on DX. There are no pre-requisite chains for spells. And you can cast any spell (subject to IQ limits) with the right equipment. It's not just adding in an iron limitation - the systems are quite different in mechanics.

[Shostak]

What is it precisely about TFT magic that you want to preserve and bring to GURPS? If it is the fact that it has both IQ requirements and rolls to cast are made against DX, just make the GURPS spells have IQ prerequisites but be DX skills.

TFT magic is, for the most part, combat oriented and tactical. TFT has several spells that cannot be resisted, making them especially dangerous at close quarters. This is mitigated somewhat by distance, since they suffer a -1/hex range penalty.

TFT turns represent five seconds of time, and all but a few edge case spells can be cast in one turn. You’d need to figure out what would make sense with GURPS’s one-second turns.

Sorcerous Empowerment makes some sense, but TFT spells are most like skills.

I have played and continue to play a lot of TFT, and share some ideas about its magic system over on my blog.

[Infornific]

Originally Posted by Shostak

What is it precisely about TFT magic that you want to preserve and bring to GURPS? If it is the fact that it has both IQ requirements and rolls to cast are made against DX, just make the GURPS spells have IQ prerequisites but be DX skills.

TFT magic is, for the most part, combat oriented and tactical. TFT has several spells that cannot be resisted, making them especially dangerous at close quarters. This is mitigated somewhat by distance, since they suffer a -1/hex range penalty.

TFT turns represent five seconds of time, and all but a few edge case spells can be cast in one turn. You’d need to figure out what would make sense with GURPS’s one-second turns.

Sorcerous Empowerment makes some sense, but TFT spells are most like skills.

I have played and continue to play a lot of TFT, and share some ideas about its magic system over on my blog.

Partly the shorter list of spells, partly the mix of DX & IQ - a low IQ magic user is a possible character type. While it's possible to tweak the standard GURPS system, the whole elaborate prerequisite chain makes that something of a challenge. While TFT spells are like skills, they by default binary - you know a spell or you don't. Note GURPS sometimes works that way - if you're buying more than a few skills you typically don't put in more than one point.

Translating spells is a bit tricky in part because of the different game mechanics. It's true that most TFT thrown spells can't be resisted but TFT doesn't have defense rolls for regular attacks either. So I'd probably allow for resistance rolls - and maybe tone down fatigue costs since that isn't as needed as a limitation when the spells aren't as surefire. Note a couple spells do have implicit or explicit resistance. Control has an IQ save and Trip has increased cost for high ST targets.

The tricky part is spells like Sleep, Control, etc where Affliction seems the obvious solution. The problem is a standard affliction is pretty terrible in effect - damage resistance gives a bonus to resistance and increasing the punch of the affliction is impractically expensive. The solution seems to be either a Malediction based attack with a limited maximum range or something wonky like a Crushing attack (for DR penetration) with No Wounding and Sleep, Control, etc as a Side Effect.

The one thing I really don't know how to handle is Illusion which doesn't really map well to anything.

[RGTraynor]

Originally Posted by Infornific

Partly the shorter list of spells, partly the mix of DX & IQ - a low IQ magic user is a possible character type. While it's possible to tweak the standard GURPS system, the whole elaborate prerequisite chain makes that something of a challenge. While TFT spells are like skills, they by default binary - you know a spell or you don't. Note GURPS sometimes works that way - if you're buying more than a few skills you typically don't put in more than one point ...

Mm, but this is surprisingly simple, if a bit time consuming. Whatever you don't like about GURPS magic (and prefer about TFT magic)? Change it. If you think GURPS has too many spells, take a pencil and eliminate the ones you don't want. If you dislike the prerequisite chain system, change it. (Heck, I did, and I more than doubled the number of spells available -- my preference isn't for "Spell X, then Spell Y, then Spell Z, then Spell Q," it's for "6 Fire spells.") If you want spells to be cast with DX instead of IQ, then declare that they're cast with DX instead of IQ.

[Plane]

The major thing I'd want to see is just making sure we have conversions for all the TFT stuff using GURPS rules, enough of them are pretty similar.