Ziusudra / Nyx questions

[jeff_wilson]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

So an entire 18 years of development in full detail played at 9x speed with an eight week bootcamp at the very end (in 6 days)?

Unnecessary when/if the slinkucation curriculum designer has carte blanche to integrate any and all activities. The subject may be otherwise built at full adult scale and avoid relearning coordination after growth spurts, for instance. The subject might be under periods of discipline and training along the way making a separate boot unnecessary, for another instance.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by jeff_wilson

Unnecessary when/if the slinkucation curriculum designer has carte blanche to integrate any and all activities. The subject may be otherwise built at full adult scale and avoid relearning coordination after growth spurts, for instance. The subject might be under periods of discipline and training along the way making a separate boot unnecessary, for another instance.

Okay, so not the same as normal childhood development?

[jeff_wilson]

Originally Posted by Keiko

I'd imagine the biggest adjustment any artificial "childhood" would be crafting it so the big reveal when decanted wouldn't be too much of a destabilizing shock.

What big reveal? What would you keep secret from them?

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by jeff_wilson

What big reveal? What would you keep secret from them?

That they are a bioroid. If you are giving them false memories of a simulated childhood without telling them the truth (like with Minx) decanting is going to be pretty big shock!

[jeff_wilson]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

That they are a bioroid. If you are giving them false memories of a simulated childhood without telling them the truth (like with Minx) decanting is going to be pretty big shock!

1) TS can't do fake memories for biologicals. The memories are real, it's the stimuli that's fake.

2) The subject matter is a third layer of truth or falsehood; you can have the big sibling gradually reveal the facts of life as the subject becomes curious or additional instruction becomes relevant. This approach has a good track record for keeping adoptees from becoming maladjusted adults.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by jeff_wilson

1) TS can't do fake memories for biologicals. The memories are real, it's the stimuli that's fake.

I'm not sure this is a meaningful distinction here. Memories of a false childhood that the subject experiences as real is going to be shocking when you get decanted into the real world.

2) The subject matter is a third layer of truth or falsehood; you can have the big sibling gradually reveal the facts of life as the subject becomes curious or additional instruction becomes relevant. This approach has a good track record for keeping adoptees from becoming maladjusted adults.

"Your whole life is a lie" is a bit more extreme than "you were adopted". I'd imagine the former pretty easily results in Dickian paranoia and solipsism. "If my childhood wasn't real, then why should I believe them when they say this factory dorm is real?" asks the paranoid bioroid.

It also seems really unnecessary. I don't think that a normal childhood needs to be experienced in the minutest detail for socialization and motor control to be learned at all.

I'm also skeptical that it is even technically possible in TS. I believe that VR training of bioroids only takes 1 to 2 years because it's purpose-driven and abbreviated. Not because it's played at 9x speed.

My reading of the description on TS76 indicates a much less comprehensive process resulting in badly socialized workaholics.

[jeff_wilson]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

I'm not sure this is a meaningful distinction here. Memories of a false childhood that the subject experiences as real is going to be shocking when you get decanted into the real world.
"Your whole life is a lie" is a bit more extreme than "you were adopted". I'd imagine the former pretty easily results in Dickian paranoia and solipsism. "If my childhood wasn't real, then why should I believe them when they say this factory dorm is real?" asks the paranoid bioroid.

"Your world is a lie" is not the same as "you are a bioroid", because those can be lied about separately. So, instead of lying, the preceptor says "You're special children raised in a special place. When you are almost grown, it will be time for you be reborn onto the earth where a glorious destiny awaits." Slinkucation can also be used to acclimate them to the world outside their tanks, they can be virtually taken on tours and watch important parts of history and the present and future scenarios, just like Scrooge.

Then when they *actually* leave the tube, they are not in totally unfamiliar surroundings, but there is still some fundamental difference in their perception of their existence in the "real world", because while slink feels completely real it isn't always completely accurate.

And because the preceptor was clever enough to have the slinkucator include some subtle cues that are now nowhere to be felt, like the green wash in scenes inside THE MATRIX's Matrix. (I have previously suggested this process should/would be done the other way around with uploads for their peace of mind. )

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

It also seems really unnecessary. I don't think that a normal childhood needs to be experienced in the minutest detail for socialization and motor control to be learned at all.

Motor control probably doesn't need a childhood at all, based on my reading about rehab of stroke and other neurological pathology, but socialization seems to, based on my reading about abnormal psychology cases like feral children, so you might as well make use of the childhood time to do the motor control also. The mental maturity looks to be the critical path in the bioroid production process.

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

I believe that VR training of bioroids only takes 1 to 2 years because it's purpose-driven and abbreviated. Not because it's played at 9x speed.

That is correct as to my reading as well. 9 internal seconds for each 1 external second would be unsupported by the text.

It does seem like I'm getting strawmen and excluded middles at about that rate, though.

[Keiko]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

It also seems really unnecessary. I don't think that a normal childhood needs to be experienced in the minutest detail for socialization and motor control to be learned at all.

I'm also skeptical that it is even technically possible in TS. I believe that VR training of bioroids only takes 1 to 2 years because it's purpose-driven and abbreviated. Not because it's played at 9x speed.

My reading of the description on TS76 indicates a much less comprehensive process resulting in badly socialized workaholics.

This makes sense If bioroids have a simulated childhood I imagine its more of a, as you mentioned, a factory dorm like environment where they trained, coached and allowed to learn to interact in way their job will require them, probably shaped psychologically to some degree. It makes bioroids a little more alien too.

[jeff_wilson]

Originally Posted by Keiko

This makes sense If bioroids have a simulated childhood I imagine its more of a, as you mentioned, a factory dorm like environment where they trained, coached and allowed to learn to interact in way their job will require them, probably shaped psychologically to some degree. It makes bioroids a little more alien too.

That's fine, but efforts to exclude emergent behaviors outside the job requirements is as psychologically risky as with baseline kids.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by jeff_wilson

"Your world is a lie" is not the same as "you are a bioroid", because those can be lied about separately. So, instead of lying, the preceptor says "You're special children raised in a special place. When you are almost grown, it will be time for you be reborn onto the earth where a glorious destiny awaits." Slinkucation can also be used to acclimate them to the world outside their tanks, they can be virtually taken on tours and watch important parts of history and the present and future scenarios, just like Scrooge.

That's not a normal childhood, though.

Motor control probably doesn't need a childhood at all, based on my reading about rehab of stroke and other neurological pathology, but socialization seems to, based on my reading about abnormal psychology cases like feral children, so you might as well make use of the childhood time to do the motor control also. The mental maturity looks to be the critical path in the bioroid production process.

I'm not saying that there's no socialization training. I'm saying that I imagine it's purpose-driven and organized as a lesson-plan derived more from memetics-based learning science than from brain-scanning Terrell's niece.

It does seem like I'm getting strawmen and excluded middles at about that rate, though.

That's not my intent. I don't really understand what you are saying. Does the PRC Space Marine get all those normal childhood memories or not? If he does how do they cram 18 years of life into 2?