04-28-2018, 12:43 AM | #11 | |
GURPS FAQ Keeper
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyïv, Ukraine
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Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Debt
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04-28-2018, 02:31 AM | #12 | |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Debt
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04-28-2018, 09:16 AM | #13 | |
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Debt
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The campaign then began adapting old D&D nodules with an exchange rate of 1 SP equaling 1 Gurps $. The big payoffs in GPs at the ends of the modules (and not the literal "kill everyone you meet and take their stuff") just swamped any concerns related to realistic economics. This may be problem with importing another games bad economics to multiply Gurps' problems with economics but that other game has set expectations. I actually haven't seen a game where the Wealth/Jobs/COL rules made any sense.
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04-28-2018, 09:44 AM | #14 | |
Join Date: Oct 2008
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Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Debt
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In my own games I tend to use my own systems so they at least make sense to me.. :) In my current game as example I use 5 points/wealth level with each level being one step on the speed/range chart both for income and expected costs to maintain the corresponding status. |
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04-28-2018, 11:24 AM | #15 | |
Join Date: Feb 2005
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Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Debt
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...so reward GPs became SPs, PPs became GPs... but a short sword still cost 10 gold or whatever. The only uses I’ve seen for Debt are for the ship loan in Traveller, really low levels to represent student loan payments... and one guy who used it to represent his mortgage. The math also doesn’t work out for any realistic loan using a Debt. You also can’t take out a loan for cash and have reasonable payments. At TL-8 10 CP gets you $20,000 to buy a car. If you offset that with 10 PTs of Debt your car payments are $2000/ mo on that car and you can never pay it off. |
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04-29-2018, 08:04 AM | #16 |
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: South Dakota, USA
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Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Debt
I haven't used the Debt Disadvantage yet, but I like it. I mean, really like it. It is an almost literal "point loan" in my eyes, and I'm in favor of such a thing when (like everything else in GURPS) it is used to enrich the gameplay experience. Or maybe I'm getting it wrong? To get rid of debt requires not only making monetary payments but ultimately spending the CP needed to buy off the trait, right? I've had some GM's that allowed a player to go into "Point debt" for something, creating a literal point loan, but it always ended up messy no matter how much both player and GM tried to make it work out. Yes, that is anecdotal and doesn't prove it could never work out for better GM's and players.
Anyway, just having your characters income docked and dealing with any social ramifications of the debt seems like a good motivator for roleplay and for gaming, which is what a good Disadvantage does, right? If the player needs or wants to chill for a bit, we have a solid idea of how the trait will inconvenience (at low levels) or threaten (at higher levels) them. Of course, as tanksoldier just pointed out, sometimes the math gets wonky, which reminded me that I would love to see a Modifier to represent both more and less stubborn debt. You know me, I like to be able to easily play around with the "pieces" of a trait. Being able to shift the money requirement to a time requirement, maybe even an HP or FP requirement, would be nice as well, but at least being able to say "Okay, we are not having a campaign where money comes easy, so if you want, you can take Debt with a -80% modifier if it truly is just a fiscal burden." or something like that.
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04-29-2018, 01:25 PM | #17 |
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: On the road again...
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Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Debt
Debt seems to be a point of contention between the simulationist and gamist camps, judging by the conversation so far. Being of the gamist camp, I feel that Debt does a good job being a gameable approximation for some games, usually in the High- and Ultra-Tech ranges I tend to play in. I don't use it to represent college loans, mortgages, and car payments; those I generally just roll into the CoL (itself mostly an approximation anyway) and call it a day. Debt is for the Big Stuff that directly impacts the game: the smuggler owing the crime lord for the drugs he dumped overboard when the Coast Guard pulled him over, etc.
IMO, Debt as a Disadvantage is as much a plot hook as it is a reduction in monthly income. YMMV, of course.
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04-29-2018, 01:33 PM | #18 |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Debt
The primary problem with debt is gamist -- it's perfectly realistic and playable, it's just priced wrong. The easy fix is to just junk it and replace it with a Duty (repay debt), with frequency representing how often it forces you to do something adventuring-relevant.
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04-29-2018, 01:54 PM | #19 | |
GURPS FAQ Keeper
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyïv, Ukraine
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Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Debt
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04-29-2018, 02:15 PM | #20 |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: [Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Debt
The people talking about RP uses for debt are basically treating it as an involuntary duty.
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