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Old 04-27-2023, 03:03 PM   #1
nightrider
 
Join Date: Apr 2023
Default Help Finding Error In Car Design

I am trying to learn how to design a car and decided I would try to see if I could make a few of the stock cars add up first. Am having trouble with this one. Anyone see where my error is? (compendium 2nd edition)

Marksman Mid-sized, x-hvy. chassis, hvy. suspension, large power plant, 4 PR tires, driver, two RLs linked front, targeting laser front, laser-guidance link, FOJ back. Armor: F50, R40, L40, B45, T20, U22, 2 10-pt. wheelguards back, 2 10-pt. hubs front. Accel. 5, top speed 95, HC 3; 5,476 lbs., $19,497.

Code:
MARKSMAN                  COST       WEIGHT
==========================================                          
Mid-sized                  600        1600
x-hvy. chassis            1200         ---
hvy. suspension            900         ---
large power plant         2000         900
4 x PR tires               800         200
driver                     ---         150
2 x RL                    2000         400
20 x rockets               700         100
wpns. link (RLs)            50         ---
targeting laser           1000          50
laser-guidance link       4500         ---
FOJ                       3000          30
25 x fl. oil               875          50
217 x armor               3472        1736
2 x 10-pt. wheelguards     200          80
2 x 10-pt. hubs            200          80
==========================================
                         21497        5376
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Old 04-27-2023, 11:41 PM   #2
owenmp
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Bellevue, WA, USA
Default Re: Help Finding Error In Car Design

When I write a vehicle description, I write the LGL as below.

20-rocket LGL (TL tuned, 20 tuned RL rockets, TL-RL link)

TL Tuning $500.00
RL Rocket Tuning x 20 $4,000.00
TL-RL Weapon Link $50.00

LGL Total Cost $4,550.00
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Old 04-28-2023, 02:36 AM   #3
nightrider
 
Join Date: Apr 2023
Default Re: Help Finding Error In Car Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by owenmp View Post
When I write a vehicle description, I write the LGL as below.
Thanks for the reply. Yes, I like your description better. Were you able to spot my error? (my cost is $2000 more than the book's and my weight is 100lbs less). I can't for the life of me figure it out. I must be missing something fundamental.
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Old 04-28-2023, 03:46 AM   #4
swordtart
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default Re: Help Finding Error In Car Design

You have made the cost of xhvy chassis 200% of the chassis cost rather than 100%. That will save you $600.

FOJ costs $300 not $3000

I'll do a full check later.

It looks like the published design doesn't add up. The design first appears in the Compendium as far as I can tell (then appears in compendium 2.5 with the same stats). It states it is 100lb and $1300 more than the sum of its components.

I couldn't find anything in the errata and can't think of an obvious reason. None of the components have changed value or weight between the versions. This may just be an unspotted errata.

Last edited by swordtart; 04-28-2023 at 11:41 AM.
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Old 04-28-2023, 01:10 PM   #5
nightrider
 
Join Date: Apr 2023
Default Re: Help Finding Error In Car Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by swordtart View Post
You have made the cost of xhvy chassis 200% of the chassis cost rather than 100%. That will save you $600.

FOJ costs $300 not $3000
Oh man, thanks so much. Not sure how I kept missing that..

Quote:
Originally Posted by swordtart View Post
It looks like the published design doesn't add up.
I am pretty sure I have found at least one other that doesn't add up, but I want to triple check it before making a fool of myself.
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Old 04-28-2023, 02:53 PM   #6
43Supporter
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Default Re: Help Finding Error In Car Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by swordtart View Post
The design first appears in the Compendium as far as I can tell
_Marksman_ first appears in _Combat Showcase_, p. 19 -- which is a large part of the problem: LG rules went through a couple-three cost changes over the years.
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Old 04-28-2023, 08:19 PM   #7
Racer
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: London, UK
Default Re: Help Finding Error In Car Design

I have a hardcopy print out of a 3rd Party Blog page with errata for the three Vehicle Guides , Combat Showcase & (I think ?) Deluxe Car Wars (White Book) .

I'm not at home , but Marksman may be on that ? Dated 2001 , I did the print off in 2004 . May have it under a Mobile Phone Bookmark . Just 22K to search through ... I'll try and narrow the search down & get back to you guys ... 😊
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Old 04-29-2023, 01:28 AM   #8
swordtart
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default Re: Help Finding Error In Car Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by 43Supporter View Post
_Marksman_ first appears in _Combat Showcase_, p. 19 -- which is a large part of the problem: LG rules went through a couple-three cost changes over the years.
Thanks for tracking that down. I note at the end of the description the cryptic add. pow. 524 this is also 100lb different from the calculated value.

I wonder if this has something to do with the discrepancy as no other design in that book seems to note the amount of power (or chassis weight) left - maybe the design was modified somehow (disallowed passenger equipment?) and the weight and cost were not updated.

The laser guidance rules certainly did flop about for a bit, but I think your observation that the design validation wasn't very good at the event that most of those designs were drawn from was more likely the issue.
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Old 04-29-2023, 01:31 AM   #9
swordtart
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default Re: Help Finding Error In Car Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer View Post
I have a hardcopy print out of a 3rd Party Blog page with errata for the three Vehicle Guides , Combat Showcase & (I think ?) Deluxe Car Wars (White Book) .

I'm not at home , but Marksman may be on that ? Dated 2001 , I did the print off in 2004 . May have it under a Mobile Phone Bookmark . Just 22K to search through ... I'll try and narrow the search down & get back to you guys ... 😊
The CS errata was in ADQ 7-1 but it doesn't list the Marksman unfortunately.
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Old 04-29-2023, 01:29 PM   #10
owenmp
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Bellevue, WA, USA
Default Re: Help Finding Error In Car Design

Because of my work schedule as a laboratory rodent, I could not access my Car Wars materials and Car Wars Vehicle Construction computer files until the weekend.

The Marksman in Combat Showcase 2037 is slightly different than the version reprinted in Car Wars Compendium 2.5.

I entered both designs into my simple-but-reliable Vehicle Design Spreadsheet. The results are presented below.


Marksman
Combat Showcase 2037
Page 19
Steve Jackson Games
1987

Marksman - Mid-sized, Extra-Heavy Chassis, Large Electric Power Plant, Heavy Suspension, 4 Solid Tires, Driver, 2 linked Rocket Launchers (each with 10 standard rockets) Front, Targeting Laser front, Flaming Oil Jet (with 25 standard flaming oil slicks) Back, 20-Rocket LGL (TL tuned, 20 RL rockets tuned, TL-RL-RL link). Cargo Capacity: 0 spaces, 284 lbs. Remaining Power Plant Pull Capacity: 524 lbs. Plastic Frame Armor: F50, R40, L40, B45, T30, U22 (217 points). Accessory Armor: 2 x 10-Point Plastic Armored Wheel Hubs Front, 2 x 10-Point Plastic Wheelguards Back. Acceleration 5, Top Speed 95 mph (90 mph at Maximum Weight of 5,760 lbs.), Cruising Speed 55 mph (52.5 mph), HC 3; 5,476 lbs., $19,447.


Marksman
Car Wars Compendium 2.5
Page 118
Steve Jackson Games
1996

Marksman - Mid-sized, Extra-Heavy Chassis, Large Electric Power Plant, Heavy Suspension, 4 Puncture-Resistant Tires, Driver, 2 linked Rocket Launchers (each with 10 standard rockets) Front, Targeting Laser Front, Flaming Oil Jet (with 25 standard flaming oil slicks) Back, 20-Rocket LGL (TL tuned, 20 RL rockets tuned, TL-RL-RL link). Cargo Capacity: 0 spaces, 284 lbs. Remaining Power Plant Pull Capacity: 624 lbs. Plastic Frame Armor: F50, R40, L40, B45, T30, U22 (217 points). Accessory Armor: 2 x 10-Point Plastic Armored Wheel Hubs Front, 2 x 10-Point Plastic Wheelguards Back. Acceleration 5, Top Speed 97.5 mph (90 mph at Maximum Vehicle Weight of 5,760 lbs.), Cruising Speed 57.5 mph (90 mph), HC 3; 5,376 lbs., $18,247.


Armored Wheel Hubs used to cost $15 per point of standard plastic armor. The cost was changed to $10 per point of standard plastic armor, the same cost of Wheelguards.

Solid Tires were used in the Combat Showcase 2027 version. Puncture-Resistant Tires were used in the Car Wars Compendium 2.5.

Several published vehicle designs have errata with the proper calculation of the Laser Guidance Link.

The term "Additional Power" was used in Combat Showcase 2037 because several Car Trailers were presented in the book, and the Heavy-Duty Transmission was recently introduced to Car Wars. The Additional Power value indicates the weight of a trailer a vehicle can pull.

I use the term "Power Plant Pull Capacity" to differentiate between the pulling and pushing capacity of a Power Plant based on its Power Factors, and Maximum Load of a Vehicle Frame. For cars, the Power Plant must have Power Factors at least one-third of current Vehicle Weight to move the car at 5 mph Acceleration. A Heavy-Duty Transmission doubles the Power Plant Pull Capacity. For a Large Car Electric Power Plant, a Heavy-Duty Transmission increases the Power Plant Pull Capacity from 6,000 lbs. to 12,000 lbs.

Superconductors and Platinum Catalysts that increase the Power Factors of Electric Power Plants were introduced to Car Wars in 1988, one year after the publication of Combat Showcase 2037 in 1987. This is the reason why there are some vehicle designs in that book that use a Heavy-Duty Transmission to move a vehicle. A Medium Car Electric Power Plant with a Heavy-Duty Transmission was used a few times in Combat Showcase 2037. Until 1988, a Heavy-Duty Transmission was the only way to increase Power Plant Pull Capacity.
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