Move And Attack [WARP]

[ElfoMaroto]

Is WARP consider a "move" for the proposes of move and attack?

if so could I spend one of my turns concentrating my self to get a 1 second bonus and on my next turn roll with -5 to move and still attack? or this preparation would deny my character the "move and attack"maneuver?

Thanks for the attention!

[AlexanderHowl]

Warp requires an action, meaning that you have to take a -10 to use it along with doing anything else. Now, you could concentrate for 1 second to activate Warp at the beginning of you next turn, but you could take your actions normally after the Warp as long as you passed a Body Sense roll. You can multiport with Rapid Fire and presumably attack between ports, though you would need sufficient carrying capacity to drag someone along if you grappled them.

[Leynok]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

Warp requires an action, meaning that you have to take a -10 to use it along with doing anything else.

Is this clarified anywhere? By my reading Warp says nothing about taking an action, and listing "none" as a penalty for instant use implies to me that would make it a free action, similar to buying enough Reduced Time on most other abilities.

Originally Posted by ElfoMaroto

Is WARP consider a "move" for the proposes of move and attack?

By a strict reading of the rules I don't think so, but this is certainly something you might want to check with your GM, since I think many would count it as one. If you are the GM, then feel free to lean whichever way you like.

[Anaraxes]

Originally Posted by Leynok

By my reading Warp says nothing about taking an action, and listing "none" as a penalty for instant use implies to me that would make it a free action

That's what AlexanderHowl said. =10 reduces the time to "instant", so you can do something else that turn (if you make your Body Sense roll; in this case, your "next" turn is the same turn, which is still the turn that immediately follows the teleport).

Times that go from one second and up would require a Maneuver. I didn't see the exact Maneuver specified, but it probably should be Concentrate.

Neither case is a Move and Attack.

4e changed magic and other effects to take effect on the turn you activate them, not at the beginning of your next turn. So, the 1-second Warp should relocate your character at the end of the turn in which you Concentrate. That is, your enemies will get an opportunity to react to your sudden disappearance before you can attack, even if you 'port to someplace out of their field of view. (Yes, that's less advantageous than being able to teleport at the beginning of your next turn. If you want to resolve it that way, then the teleport setup turn should at least designated a specific hex and facing, and if the enemies move away on their turn, too bad; you can't retroactively change the destination you spent a second setting up.

(Perhaps Warp could use an Enhancement to change the time requirement notionally from "concentrating to visualize your destination clearly" to just "charging up the jump capacitors" without having actually programmed the navicomputer. That is, you can hold a jump ready without specifying a destination, sort of like Prep Required -- though this is an Enhancement, not a Limitation, takes a lot less time than Prep, and doesn't block having other abilities ready, either. So it's not just Prep Required. Varying penalties for varying time don't make as much sense with this interpretation, but there we are.)

The instant case would relocate you instantly -- presumably at the beginning of your turn, for the ambush case -- and you can then proceed with your turn -- say, take an Attack Maneuver. No Move-and-Attack penalty here, though you do need to make the Body Sense roll. (My own interpretation of the M-and-A penalty is that it's about the time you lose in the movement portion and the inability to ideally position your body and footwork for the attack because you have to use them to move over distance. Those factors are absent with the instant Warp attack; the Body Sense roll is supposed to cover your rapid reorientation to your new position (or cinematically, correctly setting up your attack in your starting location and just following through at the destination).)

[AlexanderHowl]

Delay (+0%), which represents a fixed delay, could probably allow it, though you would need to make Warp into an attack with Ranged (+40%), though you could add Melee, Reach C, No Parry, -35%, to reduce the net cost to +5%. Now, if you also had Reliable, +10, +50%, you could change Melee to Reach 1-4, Destructive Parry, and Dual Weapon, for a net change of +90%, and teleport two small objects per turn and two weapons per turn that you successfully parried. Add Extra Carrying Capacity, Extra-Heavy, +50%, and you could potentially teleport four people per turn. No Strain, +25% and Range Limited, 10 yards, -50%, would probably be necessary to keep things sensible.

At that point, you would spend 215 CP for a powerful defensive and offensive ability (Reliable would apply for the Melee Attack version, as it is only forbidden for Ranged Attacks [Powers, p. 109]). An alternative version would use Affliction instead, which ends up being 30 CP cheaper, though it would allow a resistance roll.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by Leynok

Is this clarified anywhere? By my reading Warp says nothing about taking an action,

B97 doesn't really list a "base time" or anything for Warp, but rather provides a chart listing various preparation times and bonuses/penalties.

If I had to state a "base time" it would probably be 30 seconds since that's the midpoint of 0 where there's neither a bonus or penalty to the IQ roll.

Since stuff like "Reduced Time" is illegal, you don't really need to know it.

It doesn't seem to forbid "Takes Extra Time" on Warp, so I'm guessing B115's limitation would double all the listed times, or apply a 1-second requirement to the -10 version.

P88 mentions you can take "Preparation Required" for Warp, which would be a huge limit for the quick ports, but not as much for the ones where you're already going to spend 8 hours of prep to get a +10 bonus anyway.

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

Times that go from one second and up would require a Maneuver. I didn't see the exact Maneuver specified, but it probably should be Concentrate.

There's a history of mixed messaging on this.

http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/faq/FAQ4-3.html#SS3.2.28 (not sure what year this was written) specifies Readies:

• take a turn of Ready to get -5 to the roll instead;
  take multiple Ready actions to get from -4 to +10.

Pg 154 of GURPS Powers (April 2006) however, lists "Visualization, and Warp" (top of the middle column) as "transient abilities also require Concentrate maneuvers"

Kromm talked about this in 2007, initially saying Ready (like the FAQ) on March 8th but when P154 was brought up, he said on March 13th to use Concentrate like Powers says.

Kind of a huge nerf from FAQ>Powers TBA because it's a heck of a lot easier to take 8 hours of Ready to get a +10 than it is to take 8 hours of Concentrate... but conceptually it probably does make more sense.

Originally Posted by ElfoMaroto

Is WARP consider a "move" for the proposes of move and attack?

No, it isn't a "move".

[NineDaysDead]

Originally Posted by ElfoMaroto

Is WARP consider a "move" for the proposes of move and attack?

if so could I spend one of my turns concentrating my self to get a 1 second bonus and on my next turn roll with -5 to move and still attack? or this preparation would deny my character the "move and attack"maneuver?

Thanks for the attention!

Originally Posted by Kromm

Threads merged.

Note that Warp works mostly like any other advantage that requires activation (p. B34): you take a Ready maneuver to use it. There are a few special considerations, however. You can use it without the Ready maneuver -- effectively as a free action -- once per turn if you can make the IQ roll at -10. If you take the usual second for a Ready maneuver, the roll is at -5. If you take longer, you can whittle this down to 0 or even get a bonus. In short, your options are "free action" (-10), Ready (-5), and multiple Ready (-4 to +10).

Regardless of your prep time, if any, you need to make a Body Sense roll on arrival. This does not require time, much less a maneuver . . . it's a zero-time action triggered by your arrival. Success lets you act normally the next time you have a chance to act. Failure costs you a turn of disorientation. Either result normally affects your next turn, but if you did an instant teleport at -10, it applies to the current turn.

Thus:

If I make an IQ-10 roll and a Body Sense roll, I can teleport at the start of this turn and act this turn. This does indeed let me teleport behind someone, step, attack, and not face an active defense unless he has some special sensory ability.

If I make an IQ-10 roll but fail a Body Sense roll, I can teleport at the start of this turn and stand around looking stupid this turn.

If I take a Ready and make an IQ-5 roll and a Body Sense roll, I can teleport at the end of this turn and act next turn.

If I take a Ready and make an IQ-5 roll but fail a Body Sense roll, I can teleport at the end of this turn and spend next turn looking stupid.

And so on.

Take Gyroscopic,+10% to eliminate the Body Sense roll, and Cosmic: No Die Roll Required +100% and Reliable +10, +50% to eliminate Warp's IQ Roll. Provided other penalties don't bring you below an effective skill 3, you can teleport at the start of this turn and act this turn. This does indeed let you teleport behind someone, step, attack, and not face an active defense unless he has some special sensory ability.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by NineDaysDead

Take Gyroscopic,+10% to eliminate the Body Sense roll, and Cosmic: No Die Roll Required +100% and Reliable +10, +50% to eliminate Warp's IQ Roll. Provided other penalties don't bring you below an effective skill 3, you can teleport at the start of this turn and act this turn. This does indeed let you teleport behind someone, step, attack, and not face an active defense unless he has some special sensory ability.

Oh man... do you think C:NDRR would mean automatically successful Warp-dodging so long as Deceptive Attack / Feint doesn't penalize your IQ roll below 3?

[ericthered]

Originally Posted by Plane

Oh man... do you think C:NDRR would mean automatically successful Warp-dodging so long as Deceptive Attack / Feint doesn't penalize your IQ roll below 3?

I think you're limited to one blink a turn. I wouldn't let the no die roll required apply to blinking away from an attack, but it almost doesn't need to. I've GM'd a game with a PC who used rapid warping in combat, and its really hard to counter. Basing the roll on a skill roll instead of a defense roll already makes the ability really cheap to raise. Most of the time you don't need long range warping in combat, so you can just pop around the battlefield while your enemies take wait actions that still mostly fail.