Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-09-2020, 08:20 PM   #151
Prince Charon
 
Prince Charon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Default Re: RPM Rituals: Official, Semi-, Quasi- and Un-official

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
Yes, though that can cause major paradoxes.
I would assume so, though I wonder how the paradoxes would be dealt with. Is there a system, or is it all up to the GM?

One idea that occurred to me that I might use in such a setting (if I even allowed the Path of Nonexistence at all, which I'd prefer not to) is that someone is gathering energy for a global Greater Create Nonexistence ritual that would retroactively cause the setting to have need a no mana worldline all along, thus removing most or all of the monsters (assuming a Monster Hunters-style setting) and potentially turning it into a Homeline echo.

(If the PCs fail, I'd inform the players that they're all sitting around a table at the end of their latest GURPS game...)
__________________
Warning, I have the Distractible and Imaginative quirks in real life.

"The more corrupt a government, the more it legislates."
-- Tacitus

Five Earths, All in a Row. Updated 8/14/2021: A short Q&A on magic and thoughtforms article has been posted.
Prince Charon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2020, 09:15 PM   #152
AlexanderHowl
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Default Re: RPM Rituals: Official, Semi-, Quasi- and Un-official

Well, one thing to remember about the Path of Nonexistence is that every failure is treated as a critical failure and critical failures are even worse (reality prefers to keep things the way that they are). Global changes would probably result in the practitioners being unwritten from existence. For example, removing Napoleon from history would likely require 1000s of points of energy, meaning that even the most skilled magicians would die horribly before they got halfway.

One possibility is that the Path of Nonexistence was the first magical Path and the rest of the Paths came about because magicians erased the rules that forbade them. In order to prevent infinite recursions and other paradoxes, the Path of Nonexistence should not be able to remove the effects of the Path of Nonexistence from reality or remove the Path of Nonexistence from reality. In any case, it is a really powerful Path that is really dangerous.
AlexanderHowl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2020, 04:39 AM   #153
Icelander
 
Icelander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
Default Re: RPM Rituals: Official, Semi-, Quasi- and Un-official

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
Well, one thing to remember about the Path of Nonexistence is that every failure is treated as a critical failure and critical failures are even worse (reality prefers to keep things the way that they are). Global changes would probably result in the practitioners being unwritten from existence. For example, removing Napoleon from history would likely require 1000s of points of energy, meaning that even the most skilled magicians would die horribly before they got halfway.
Agreed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
One possibility is that the Path of Nonexistence was the first magical Path and the rest of the Paths came about because magicians erased the rules that forbade them. In order to prevent infinite recursions and other paradoxes, the Path of Nonexistence should not be able to remove the effects of the Path of Nonexistence from reality or remove the Path of Nonexistence from reality. In any case, it is a really powerful Path that is really dangerous.
That's a really interesting theory!

I will certainly have an occultist propose this once the PCs start investigating and researching the Path of Nonexistence.
__________________
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Icelander is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2020, 08:48 AM   #154
Icelander
 
Icelander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
Default Olvido ('Oblivion' or 'Ending of Memory') Ritual

A cultist of the Keepers of the Last Hearth recently had occasion to use a ritual that removes all traces of herself and her friends from memory. The twist is that she's using a version of this ritual (which is a specialty of hers) that works on external memory, i.e. storage media.

The metaphysical explanation of how the ritual works is that it intensifies the interference between magic and technology and causes this interference to destroy any parts of the record that contain 'memory' of the caster or other chosen things.

What Path do you use for this ritual? It's very closely related to a Path of Mind ritual that does the same to living people, but it's also clearly not exactly the same thing.

I'm envisioning this as something that people who are good at Path of Magic are good at, because this is fundamentally taking an aspect of how magic works in the setting and turning it to your benefit, by deliberately triggering a technological malfunction (which will all too often be an accidental side-effect of magic anyway). But is just using Path of Magic enough? Or do you need to use another path with it?

Would that be Path of Energy or Path of Matter?

I don't want to have to roll against the worst of three Paths or something, as this is not supposed to be all that major, as rituals go.

Indeed, I imagine that this should not be too difficult to perform, given that the first thing most ritual magicians in the setting tend to notice is how their magic can cause technology to start malfunctioning, so intensifying and controlling that effect should be a fairly modest trick.

Would anyone care to essay a try to write this up in ritual terms?
__________________
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Icelander is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2020, 12:10 PM   #155
AlexanderHowl
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Default Re: RPM Rituals: Official, Semi-, Quasi- and Un-official

It would probably either be a Path of Matter and Path of Mind (impacting both machines and people) or a Path of Nonexistence (removing the impressions that the individuals made). In the former case, it is likely a Greater Effect. In the latter case, it is likely a Lesser Effect, as they are removing current memory rather than retroactively removing past memory.
AlexanderHowl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2020, 01:22 PM   #156
Icelander
 
Icelander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
Default Re: RPM Rituals: Official, Semi-, Quasi- and Un-official

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
It would probably either be a Path of Matter and Path of Mind (impacting both machines and people)
This is an area where the division into Paths doesn't really provide an exact fit to my metaphysical conception. Ideally, I'd want this to fit within the same Path as other effects that deal with knowledge, memory and psychic residue.

In GURPS Magic terms, I see this as being a Knowledge spell. In Path/Book terms, it's definitely both Path of Cunning and Path of Knowledge.

The problem with having it be Path of Matter is that I can see occultists who never perform any of the other rituals that might fall under Path of Matter who are good at this spell. Those who are good at this spell should be good at Path of Mind and Path of Magic, because that's mostly what I see them doing here, they are manipulating an innate property of magic in the setting and releasing it to destroy only parts of a technological device, specifically those parts which Path of Mind discovers as having come in contact with the psychic residue of the targets, i.e. having recorded the things that you want removed.

It's a metamagical trick to use a Path of Mind trick on something which can't directly be affected by Path of Mind.

Ideally, of course, this would fall under a hypothetical 'Path of Knowledge' , but I don't really want to rework the entire RPM system.

Edit: Ooh, I could use an Attribute Substitution Perk to allow the use of Path of Mind for affecting digital memory!

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
or a Path of Nonexistence (removing the impressions that the individuals made).
Yes, I know that would work.

However, given the potential disastrous effects of using the Path of Nonexistence, I was hoping there was a reasonable alternative using the ritual magic that various occultists with the cult may have known before they were initiated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
In the former case, it is likely a Greater Effect. In the latter case, it is likely a Lesser Effect, as they are removing current memory rather than retroactively removing past memory.
To maintain setting integrity, I would like to interpret the RPM rules so that effects that run in the face of a secular, scientific worldview are extremely difficult and expensive to create with magic, but effects that take advantage of the Facade and serve to conceal the supernatural are as easy as possible.

Basically, for unknown reasons, the universe (or at any rate some relevant part of it) seems to be reacting against magic that violates the worldview of the majority (theories differ on how that majority is figured, whether that's global or local, etc.). People who encounter evidence of the paranormal or even directly see supernatural things will often prefer any rationalization over believing their own eyes.

Also, technological complexity, artificial materials and artifacts made in any process where they are alienated from the personal craftsmanship of the maker (e.g. factory-manufactured goods) appear to interfere with magic and magic seems to cause malfunctions in complex technological devices.

Rituals that make use of these setting features should, if at all possible, be interpreted as Lesser Effects, while any magic that cannot be explained as coincidence, natural occurrence, psychosomatic or with another mundane explanation should require one or more Greater Effects.
__________________
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!

Last edited by Icelander; 02-14-2020 at 04:10 PM.
Icelander is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2020, 06:19 PM   #157
Icelander
 
Icelander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
Default Magical Zeroed Ritual

Ok, Teddy Smith wants to tattoo the Girl with the Kaleidoscope Eyes (Gisella Esther Cortèz Rojas, a.k.a. 'Gwen Delvano') so that her fellow cultists can't find her with magical means. In metaphysical terms, we're removing any magical residue of her (and moving it to the ringer pig, but that's a totally different ritual).

I guessed that changing the way something responds to magical divinations was just Path of Magic. Call it Lesser Transform Magic + Altered Traits: Zeroed + Subject Weight + Duration. Should come to about 30 energy.

Does that sound right?
__________________
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Icelander is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2020, 07:54 PM   #158
Christopher R. Rice
 
Christopher R. Rice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Portsmouth, VA, USA
Default Re: RPM Rituals: Official, Semi-, Quasi- and Un-official

Is this a continuing effect?
__________________
My Twitter
My w23 Stuff
My Blog

Latest GURPS Book: Realm Management
Latest TFT Book: The Sunken Library

Become a Patron!
Christopher R. Rice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2020, 03:48 AM   #159
Icelander
 
Icelander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
Default Re: RPM Rituals: Official, Semi-, Quasi- and Un-official

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice View Post
Is this a continuing effect?
Supposed to work until the next dawn.

For setting reasons, any magical effect with a longer duration is a Greater Effect.

Oh, probably should have mentioned that for the temporary effect, the 'tattoo' is painted on. Teddy is going to prepare further before making a permanent tattoo, because that is going to be a lot more difficult to do.
__________________
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!

Last edited by Icelander; 03-01-2020 at 03:53 AM.
Icelander is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2020, 04:17 AM   #160
Christopher R. Rice
 
Christopher R. Rice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Portsmouth, VA, USA
Default Re: RPM Rituals: Official, Semi-, Quasi- and Un-official

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
Supposed to work until the next dawn.

For setting reasons, any magical effect with a longer duration is a Greater Effect.

Oh, probably should have mentioned that for the temporary effect, the 'tattoo' is painted on. Teddy is going to prepare further before making a permanent tattoo, because that is going to be a lot more difficult to do.
That could work. You could also add Altered Traits, Obscure too I suppose.
__________________
My Twitter
My w23 Stuff
My Blog

Latest GURPS Book: Realm Management
Latest TFT Book: The Sunken Library

Become a Patron!
Christopher R. Rice is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
ritual, ritual path magic, rpm, thaumatology, vile vortices

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:18 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.