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Old 01-31-2011, 07:04 PM   #11
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Default Re: [Thaumatology] Real world magical traditions

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
Ok, isn't allowing Decanic practice to get the same bonuses as Kabbalic practice and a bunch of Decanic bonuses too working in the wrong direction? If Symbol Drawing doesn't do anything for Decanic magic mechanically (not that they don't use symbols, just that those symbols aren't mystically potent in the setting), but does help Kaballah then that helps to balance them.
Yeah, I suppose that particular piece of info (and the general fact that Hermeticism tends to absorb anything useful from other traditions) isn't all that conducive to game balance. Reality can be terribly uncooperative for balanced gaming sometimes. :)

It's the approach taken in Cabal, which I like, but I get that it's not what Icelander is looking for.

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Can you cite a source?
My primary source is the Torah, which goes into great detail on the matter.

The practice has come in and out of vogue with various sects of Judaism through the centuries, but it's still an important theological point. The Kosher preparation of animals involves ritual slaughter, i.e. a form of sacrifice.

But my core point was not that any Jewish sects currently practice it (I don't know if they do), but that it's been an important part of the religion for all of its (written) history, and therefor could quite plausibly show up in an esoteric practice.


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I've just read an account of the chicken killing practice I mentioned and the author made a huge point of how it wasn't a sacrifice. I've read elsewhere that the reason that modern Jews are able to ignore the commandants of sacrifice is because they no longer have the Temple, and therefore are currently exempt.
There are plenty of different strains of Judaism, do you know which the author was from?
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Old 01-31-2011, 07:59 PM   #12
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Default Re: [Thaumatology] Real world magical traditions

Icelander, let me ask this ... are you more concerned about game balance between the traditions, or authenticity to real-world beliefs? There are a lot things that will look very different if occult traditions need all to be equally supernaturally effective in terms of what kinds of bonuses they can claim, and you might end up having to artificially inject or withhold certain bonuses from certain traditions.

One possibility is to give different traditions different kinds of benefits, besides spell-casting. Voudon practitioners might have "alternate forms" corresponding to the lwa that they can invoke, with appropriate trait boosts and supernatural abilities.

Another question, does magic work along a set of constant metaphysics, or does it work differently for each tradition -- is it based on a sort of "occult science," that works the same for all casters, or on the particular beliefs of a particular caster? If it operates according to a set of constant, underlying laws, then all of the modifiers are applicable to any magic -- it's just a question of who knows about them.

One thought that occurred to me is that it seems like you're mostly trying to overcome the brutal penalties that you've set. I think if you reduced those, it would be less of an issue to come up with a lot of special modifiers.

A few more random thoughts...


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It would not hurt to have one for Catholic mysticism, probably influenced by the Hermetic one, but with individual saints instead of decans.
The split between "Hermetic Magic" and "Christian Magic" is arguably not very old. Post-Golden Dawn Hermeticism is quite distinct from Christianity, and Thelema even moreso, but up until the Church lost the power to burn heretics, most Hermetic magic was practiced as Christian magic. Agrippa, Dee, and even the Rosicrucians were all nominally Christian mages.

Catholic mysticism is something quite different, more akin to Divine Powers than to Thaumatology. I wouldn't call it a formal magical tradition, but a collection of mystically-inclined individuals.


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First, does anyone have links to online resources on the Sephiroth and what kind of places, materials, colors, metals, stones, plants, creatures, scents, body parts and tools might be associated with each sephirah? Also, if anyone has actually featured Kabbalah in their campaigns, does anyone have insights of their own about this?
The only such resources I know of are Hermetic/Thelemic ... Crowley's Liber 777 is the definitive Post-Golden Dawn reference. Orthodox Kabbalists have no such correspondences -- that whole idea originated with Christian mystics who wanted to syncretize Kabbalism into their own framework.


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Third, what bonuses are appropriate for Kabbalah and Zoroastrian magic? Sympathy bonuses would obviously fit Kabbalah, but do they fit Zoroastrian magic? What about Contagion? True Names?
True Names are certainly appropriate to Kabbalism ... in fact, that might be a good (if drastically oversimplified) big-picture understanding of Kabbalah: "Knowing the True Names of Things."

I can't think of any examples of Contagion in purely Kabbalistic magic, but then Contagion is about casting spells on someone/something, and Kabbalistic magic tends to be internal -- seeking unity with God, rather than hexing your enemies or calling up a spirit.


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*That is to say, what gives bonuses on castings that are regulated by each of them. I've already figured out which rituals fit under each.
Would you mind posting them? I haven't gone through and assigned Paths/Books/Rituals to traditions yet, but I will need to do so soon for an upcoming campaign, so I'd be interested to see what you've done.

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Old 02-01-2011, 02:07 AM   #13
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Default Re: [Thaumatology] Real world magical traditions

(sorry to add no value to your conversation, but I'm finding it all hellishly interesting. I can see I'm going to have to get into the Thaumatology stuff.) Nice thread people - keep it up! (... and I have a date with wikipedia...)
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Old 02-01-2011, 04:39 AM   #14
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I thought he wanted to balance the systems, making them competitive with one another, rather than allowing Decanic Hermeticism to dominate.
A bit of background about the metaphysics of my setting and the history of magic.

This background may or may not be true, but it is the more or less accepted theory among those in the Vatican* who know about magic (and believe in it).

At some time back in the unimaginably ancient past, things we would regard as supernatural were present in the physical world. Monsters, spirits, fey and other beings appear to have coexisted with humanity. Most of this happened before recorded history and there is even a school of thought that maintains that once a culture became complex enough for its own written language that records daily events (as opposed to runes, pictograms or hieroglyphs with mostly a ritual purpose), such beings were less likely to interact with it.

The theory goes that the various magical traditions in the world were learned from supernatural beings or developed in cooperation with them.

In the land of Sumer and Akkad, humanity consorted with what the Catholic Church considers demons**. They learned to bind these creatures into their service and command them to use their powers on their behalf. These demon-spirits or ekimmu were hungry for sacrifices and are drawn to strong negative emotions, such as fear, anger, shame and disgust. Blood and various bodily fluids solidify their connection to the world and may even allow them to take physical form in the world. Adepts in this style of magic have been called diabolists, necromancers, blood mages or conjurers.

Egypt is theorised to have been colonised by ultraterrestials, who may even have interbred with the population. Alchemy and much of the ritual magic the Church has documented ultimately appears to derive from such ultraterrestial interactions. The study of ultraterrestial archeology before recorded human history and philological reconstructions of their ritual languages (in Egypt and elsewhere) are fields with much promise. Those who use magic derived from Egyptian roots may be dubbed alchemists, sorcerers, magi or magicians.

The Church regards ultraterrestials as physical beings and has at points durings its history viewed them as without souls or free will. The progressive view, espoused by Pope John Paul II, was that they were simply pagans who had the same opportunities as human beings for good and evil and with faith could also be saved.

Ultraterrestials appear to fall into several groups. In Egypt and in other places around the Mediterranean, they lived in human society as rulers and were worshipped as gods. These groups of ultraterrestials may have had a different origin than the more reclusive groups who lived in magical places that appeared to straddle the boundaries between the physical world and some other place where Nature*** reigned supreme. That world was dubbed Faerie by many and the beings from it the fey.

The fey are conjectured to be the origin for Celtic magic as well as Nordic rune magic. Those who study Ogham or Rune magic are convinced that fey are beings entirely seperate from the ultraterrestials of Egypt, pointing to the very different magical traditions, but others claim that cultural differences among the fey account for these and that all 'human-like' ultraterrestials ultimately come from one place, which is Faerie, merely at different times in its history and with different attitudes towards humanity.

In any event, the beings who were called the fey, faeries, Hidden People, Lords and Ladies and many other things had direct contact with humanity after it developed writing. As a result, far more is known about them. It is known, for example, that some of them prefered to live on Earth over Faerie, but that nearly all of them wanted nothing to do with human society. Over time, the fey retreated from human expansion on Earth. Some were content to go back to Faerie, others lived in Hidden Places where humans did not wander and still others attempted to find areas on Earth where the wilderness was beautiful to them and no humans lived.

Some faeries, however, felt that meek acceptance of human supremacy on Earth was vile and unacceptable. They wanted to slay humans and carve out their own kingdoms there. The fey races**** were bitterly divided. Those who were cautious and feared the consequences of a war with the humans were more numerous and more powerful, but in their caution, they failed to see the danger of disunity among their own people. Centuries of civil strife took place, among those humanity would dub Seelie and Unseelie Courts, the 'friendly' or neutral fey against those who would destroy all humans.

The precise start date of this conflict is hard to ascertain. The Catholic Church can trace Unseelie sentiment, in attacks against humans, back to the earliest records of interaction with the fey, but most scholars believe that large-scale warfare between fey didn't start under well after the year 1000 and probably not until after 1100. What is known that Seelie nobles came to leading human adepts in secrecy and asked for their assistance if the conflict should spread to Earth. As a consequence of this, the Unseelie were put on the defensive***** and mostly forced to stage their war from their fastnesses in Faerie.

Most scholars believe that the eventual closing of the way between Faerie and Earth was related to the war. The theories of precisely why it happened are legion, but as no fey appear to be left on Earth, there are none to confirm or refute them.

Scholars of magic note that supernatural occurances appear to have been waning on Earth for all of recorded history. Yes, it is true that many of the magical traditions were preserved throughout the ages, but the effectiveness of the rituals, when experimented with by these scholars, was always much less than in the ancient sources they had access to.

Finally, at some point after the Industrial Revolution and before the First World War, all supernatural charms, rituals and spells ceased to work. No confirmed and proven working of magic or sighting of supernatural phenomena exists in the Vatican after the date of 1901 (there is dispute among some even about those events).

As a result, even with the wealth of occult materials in the vaults of the Vatican, most people born after this time ceased to believe in the supernatural. Those who had access to the secret files usually believed that it had once existed, but if so, it was irrelevant now. Where there had once been a strong organisation of Christian priests educated in the occult and dedicated to eradicating all magic that conflicted with their faith, there were now only a few scholars who theorised endlessly about a subject no longer relevant to the world.

The story among other adepts, less centralised and with access to less information, was similar. Rituals were passed on down as part of religions or culture, but most people did not remember a time when they truly worked. Ever since scientific study of magic began, with the rebirth of science in the Renaissaince, even the smallest magical effects required the flawless knowledge of truly ancient languages and a complex working where nothing could go wrong. Folk magic was mostly superstition, even during times when magic did work******.

The game is set in 2010-2011. At some point past 1980, or at any rate before 1990, credible reports of supernatural phenomena again began to surface. In 1989, the Catholic Church took official (albeit secret) steps to investigate and confirm these reports.

*One PC went there after the events of the previous season and helped to linguistically reconstruct a language older than Sumerian. In return, he was allowed access to many books that had to do with his work, as well as a wealth of information on Kabbalah and Zoroastrianism, which fall within his field of expertise. (He is a Professor of Religious Anthropology at Harvard.
**Some more secularly-minded Jesuits theorise that these beings only appear demonic to our sensibilities, but are natural creatures who fit into God's creation in a way that is not currently understood. Theories include a race of pure physic energy from another plane (ultraterrestials), spirits of fierce animals and angry ghosts of humans who fail to find their way to the afterlife or simply mental projections of the worst things about humanity.
***In all senses, that is, breathtaking beauty, serenity, wholesomeness and oneness with all living things and the Nature that is red in tooth and claw.
****For the inhabitants of Faerie are not all alike, with some being small and sprite-like, others being tall and majestic humanoids and still others having stranger forms.
*****Well, over a period of some centuries. Time in Faerie probably passes at a very different rate than it does on Earth, as recorded interviews with named fey take place with centuries between them and the fey appears to have changed little and is still engaged in much the same events on his home plane.
******This is due to the massive penalties to magic in the setting. At no point in recorded history has the Earth as a whole been more than Low Magic and non-mages (the vast majority of people) have a further -6 penalty. Trying to cast spells in 'common' languages, as most people did, is a further -5. So, only scholar-mages with encyclopedic knowledge of the theory of magic as well as the ancient cultures from whence it sprang have a realistic chance of using it. It does not help that working magic in the presence of skeptics is at a penalty as well.
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Old 02-01-2011, 04:53 AM   #15
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The thing to take away from all this is that the closer a magical tradition is to the 'original' teachings, the more powerful it should be. Hermetic magic, as a syncretisised system of magic, is supposed to be versatile and comparatively easy to use. It is something that mere ordinary scholars have a chance to learn and it includes most of the useful rituals that are known. However, disciplines which are older and more esoteric should have some benefits over 'bastardised' systems like that.

So the effect I want is that Hermetic magic is an excellent choice for all around magic use, but Kabbalah, while it has a much more narrow focus, is capable of more powerful effects within that field. Provided, of course, that the user has the requisite learning to make use of it.

This means that Hermetic magic is much easier to learn*, but that someone with all the right lore will be more effective using a more ancient tradition. Truly accomplished Hermetic practisioners, of course, might use proto-Egyptian and reconstruct rituals as they originally were during the Golden Age of magic. Not that any such have been noted in the campaign setting so far or are likely to be so. This is very much a 'gritty reboot' of mystical conspiracy gaming, where most adepts are not even capable of demonstrating their powers in front of a skeptical audience.

One PC, whose father was a rabbi and Kabbalah scholar and whose character has studied the msyteries** extensively should be able to use Kabbalah to some effect. Ideally, Wards and Curse Sanctums (what he contemplates using it for), should be more effective than what he could get by simply taking Ritual Magic (Hermetic) for the same amount of points.

*Not that this means 'easy', but that there actually are books in living languages written about it and that Latin gives a +0 modifier with it and that Latin is at least not that hard to find instruction in.
**As anthropological curiosities, not something he believed in.
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Old 02-01-2011, 05:46 AM   #16
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What do I need from the forumites?
For some kind of Norse rune magic system, how about associating each kind of magic with one of those Norse gods that had a day named after him? Of course that would create a frequently rotating cycle, which I do not consider ideal from a game design point of view, but it's just about all I can think of, for Norse magic bonuses.

Also, I seem to recall once coming across a statement that the Norse week had only 5 days, so there'd be no washing day or sun day apparently, but still one day named after the moon, and then of course Tyr, Odin, Thor, and Frej and/or Freja.

I haven't been able to confirm this piece of information with my low Research skill, though, but it'd be interesting if the Norse week cycle was out of synch with the Judeochristian week cycle, from a game design point of view (even if the weekdays give no bonuses to spell magic based on Judeochristain principles, Christian religious powers might still work better on Sundays; that's the case in my Ärth setting, and IIRC also in Ars Magica's Mythic Europe).
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Old 02-01-2011, 06:18 AM   #17
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For some kind of Norse rune magic system, how about associating each kind of magic with one of those Norse gods that had a day named after him? Of course that would create a frequently rotating cycle, which I do not consider ideal from a game design point of view, but it's just about all I can think of, for Norse magic bonuses.
I'm prioritising magic system design according to how much they affect the PCs and how much interest the players show in learning about them.

So far, we have a Harvard professor of religious anthropology who has spent the past year in the Vatican learning about magic being real.* Given his background as a kabbalistical scholar and rabbi's son, a Jesuit** who studies Kabbalah ritual magic offered to instruct him in using such magic to protect himself. With this PC's expertise in Zoroastrian mythology and ritualism, though, he has been experimenting on his own with such magic.

So I need those systems before I need others, given that one PC can already use them. I've featured the Sumerian blood magic in a previous 'season' and a surviving antagonist is a master of it. With sacrifices and various other means, he can actually use such magic to kill or even summon powerful demons in corporeal form.

*After having an experience which predisposed him to believe this.
**This Jesuit believes that 'magic' is merely natural forces that have not yet been incorporated into our scientific framework. As such, he sees all ritual traditions as incomplete attempts to approximate real natural laws that are as yet unknown. He finds that Kabbalah works better for him than the Hermetic system or its even more simplified 'Catholic' counterpart. To him, ritual magic is a tool, no more good or evil in nature than a hammer or wrench.


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I haven't been able to confirm this piece of information with my low Research skill, though, but it'd be interesting if the Norse week cycle was out of synch with the Judeochristian week cycle, from a game design point of view (even if the weekdays give no bonuses to spell magic based on Judeochristain principles, Christian religious powers might still work better on Sundays; that's the case in my Ärth setting, and IIRC also in Ars Magica's Mythic Europe).
No magic in the setting can be explicitly identified as being granted by divine powers.

Some (heretical) Christian thinkers have theorised that there are three kinds of spirit beings, the elohim, the djinn/loa and the Annunaki. These are, respectively, good, neutral and evil. From them come all forms of spirit magic.

There are also, according to these theories, three kinds of physical ultraterrestials. There are the fey, who are neutral, the Builders (Egypt and other ancient civilisations such as pre-Homeric Greek, also Atlantis) who are good, and an unknown race of evil beings who live in secret among humans.

All magic is then shoehorned into one of these categories and explained as having come from one of these three races or three types of spirits.

While the idea that angels and God are merely one part of a system of triads is considered heretical, some elements of this worldview are often used as rationalisations by religious people who acknowledge magic. In their mind, magic which derives from the elohim is holy and magic which comes from the Builders is essentially permissable, despite the pagan elements*. Views on 'neutral' magic differ, some seeing it as merely a tool, but some considering it 'wordly' and thus not appropriate for men of faith.

Evil magic is nearly universally condemned.

*The Builders are considered 'Righteous Pagans'.
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Old 02-01-2011, 07:06 AM   #18
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Most magical traditions have some form of Symbol Drawing (and other ritual preparations) that could give similar bonuses.
Very true.

Current Symbol Drawing specialities that I have established are Symbol Drawing (Hebrew), Symbol Drawing (Hermetic). Symbol Drawing (Ogham) and Symbol Drawing (Futhark) might actually end up as being not adjuncts to a Path/Book Ritual Magic speciality, but a magic system of their own (Symbol Magic, GURPS Thaumatology p. 168).

Zoroastrian magic does not have a Symbol Drawing speciality associated with it. It is unknown whether using Vedic Sanskrit would be effective or not. The Sumerian blood magus tradition has a form of Symbol Drawing incorporating proto-Sumerian cuneiforms.
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Old 02-01-2011, 08:22 AM   #19
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Right, a short overview of what I have.

First of all, all magic in my setting is affected by Mana level, which is Very Low Mana in most places. This includes attempts by spirits to affect the material world or the use of Advantages which are somehow magical in nature. In addition, materials may naturally act as inhibitors or conductors of magic.

Magical languages and sacred architecture appear to affect all known traditions. Some traditions are associated with certain languages, of course, and using languages outside of them has no effect. Sacred architecture must be designed to benefit certain traditions, but if those traditions are similar, it might be that the effects extend over. Architecture designed to neutralise magical workings appears to work on most traditions.

Sympathy, Names and Contagion appear to be reflective in some ways of magical constants, as they modify all known traditions in some ways. The modifier may not be the same across traditions and some items, symbolically strong in one tradition, may be inert or antagonistic in others. The maximum combined modifier for Sympathy, Names and Contagion is +6 with one important exception. If the True Name of the subject of the magic is known, the +4 bonus for that is added on top of whatever bonus is given by the other two categories, making the effective maximum +10.

Sacrifices are possible in some traditions, not others. The same goes for decanic modifiers. It is very common for magical traditions to have some equivalent to the decanic modifiers, however, in the form of certain materials, places or other attributes which are symbolically important in their cosmology for certain types of magical working. These can give similar bonuses.

Where skills, such as Symbol Drawing, provide a bonus to rituals, their use takes time. Assume that this time ranges from 10 minutes to 12 hours, depending on the complexity of the symbols required for the ritual in question (a good guideline is assuming that this requires as much time as the ritual it is intended to assist). This can be reduced from one step, i.e. from hours to minutes or minutes to seconds at the cost of -2 to the skill. Reducing it by two steps, if the GM allows that, is at a -5 to the supporting skill.

Thaumatology is the study of magical theory, independent from these disciplines. Each worldview also has an Occultism speciality associated with it and non-mages may know it and roll against it to identify ways to defend against magic.

In general, the maximum positive modifier is +15, before accounting for the Mana penalty. This includes bonuses from Sympathy, Names, Contagion, correspondances, sacrifices, etc.

Exceptions do exist, though. Language bonuses and Sacred Architecture bonuses are added on top of this maximum.

In addition, sacrifices in Sumerian blood magic are not capped at a +6 and all sacrifice bonuses for living things are added after the +15 maximum. This makes is very powerful and very dangerous, but obviously more problematic to keep secret.

Older and purer traditons may have higher maximum bonuses, as well. So far, no one the PCs have been able to talk to has mastered such a discipline, but it is entirely possible that masters of ancient Egyptian sorceries have maximum bonuses of +20 or more.

Hermetic Magic: The Hermetic tradition of magic is the 'default' variety. It includes Alchemy (European), Astrology, Ritual Magic (Hermetic) and Symbol Drawing (Hermetic). In addition, modern students should know languages, literature, culture and history behind their theory if they wish to make full use of it.

What Paths should fall under Ritual Magic (Hermetic)? I'm leaning toward all of them, unless there is something there that would be out of place. By all means, forumites, speak out if some of the Paths or rituals in Thaumatology would not fit Ritual Magic (Hermetic).

Hermetic magic makes full use of the decanic rules, in addition to all the Laws of Magic given. Symbol Drawing grants its usual bonus. Sacrifices are acceptable, but rarely, if ever, of living beings. Significant dates are important and Astrology skill is frequently needed to determine these. Places and items accumulate a Patina (p. 88) for further bonuses with time.

The basic language of Hermetic thought is Koine Greek, but Latin also works.

The Islamic version of Hermetic magic is mostly identical in game terms, but has Alchemy (Islamic) instead of (European) and the default language is Classical Arabic.

Symbol Drawing (Hermetic) has a mutual default with Symbol Drawing (Hebrew) at -6 and with Symbol Drawing (Egyptian Hieroglyphs) at -4. Ritual Magic (Hermetic) defaults to Ritual Magic (Kabbalah) at -6, to Ritual Magic (Egyptian) at -4 and to Ritual Magic (Hellenic) at -2.

Hellenic Magic: Very similar to the more modern Hermetic school, but without some of the later syncretisised additions, such as kabbalah and Wiccan concepts. Relevant skills are Alchemy (Ancient Hellenic), Astrology, Ritual Magic (Hellenic) and Symbol Drawing (Astrological).

In rules terms, all but identical to Hermetic magic, except that some associations may differ slightly. The language is Koine Greek, of course. Attic or Homeric Greek may work in association with it.

Mutually defaults to Ritual Magic (Hermetic) at -2 and to Ritual Magic (Egyptian) at -4.

Egyptian Sorcery: The study of ancient Egyptian methods, purer and more powerful than the diluted versions of the Hermetic magi.

Uses most of the same rules, but the associated skills are Alchemy (Ancient Hellenic), Astrology, Ritual Magic (Egyptian) and Symbol Drawing (Egyptian Hieroglyphs).

Ritual Magic (Egyptian) defaults to Ritual Magic (Hermetic) at -4.

Probably has all the Paths, unless some knowledgable forumite can convince me that some of them do not fit (or, even better, convince me that there are some magical effects which fit them, but are not represented among the Paths and Rituals already written).

Qabala: The kabbalistic study of magic has had enormous influence on the Occidental traditions, but its origins are shrouded in mystery. Some Christians claim that it belongs to them every bit as much as to Judaism and that it is the true magic of God. Others claim that it is symbolic of the Judaic rejection of Christ.

It teaches the Paths of Health (healing only), Path of Knowledge, Path of Protection and Path of Spirits (wards and good spirits only). There may be other, hidden Paths, and if forumites could suggest those I'd love it.

Associated skills are Mathematics (Gemetria), Meditation, Religious Ritual (Judaic), Ritual Magic (Kabbalah), Symbol Drawing (Hebrew), Theology (Judaic).

Does not allow bonuses from Sacrifices, except Self-Sacrifice and only in extremis. Mathematics (Gemetria) and Symbol Drawing (Hebrew) both give bonuses for margin of success as with normal Symbol Drawing. These bonuses do count against the maximum +15 bonus and it takes the normal time to claim them (half of the time required to perform the unmodified ritual under Effect Shaping). If the kabbalist has the Intuitive Mathematician Advantage, he can reduce the time taken for Mathematics (Gemetria) by one step for free and by two steps at only a -2 penalty.

Meditation can be used to enter the sephiroth in preparation for using a ritual. This will probably involve a roll at a penalty for the complexity of the path taken and the difficulty of the sephirah in question. Success on this roll will mean a bonus on the use of the ritual. Failure will mean a negative consequence, opinions sought from forumites that that ought to be. Entering the sephiroth ought to have a base time of an hour or so.

Bonuses for Purity affect both the Meditation rolls and rolls against Ritual Magic (Kabbalah). As such, a kabbalist who fasts, prays and remains aloof from all wordly distractions can amass high bonuses. On the other hand, those bonuses also count against the maximum +15.

Breath Control, Religious Ritual (Judaic) and Theology (Judaic) ought to provide bonuses to the Meditation roll. I don't know whether that ought to be 1/2 margin of success as with Symbol Drawing or whether it should use the rules in Action! for Complementary Skills.
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Old 02-01-2011, 01:24 PM   #20
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My primary source is the Torah, which goes into great detail on the matter.

The practice has come in and out of vogue with various sects of Judaism through the centuries, but it's still an important theological point.
This is absolutly incorrect.

According to the Torah there have been only 2 places where sacrifices Jews were permitted to bring sacrifical offerings.

One was The Mishkan (the tabernacle) the jewish people carried with them through the desert. The other was The Temple.

It's also important to note that only the Kohanim (a subset of the priests - Levites) were premited to acctualy preform the sacrifices.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CousinX View Post
The Kosher preparation of animals involves ritual slaughter, i.e. a form of sacrifice.
This is also compleatly wrong. The 'ritual slaughter' of an animal in kosher food preperation is no more a sacrifice that any other jewish ritual. For example the 'ritual washing of hands before eating'.
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